Quality upgradeable home theater reciever or processor?

gkinberg · « **on:** 19 Feb 2010, 06:45 am »

I am upgrading my home theater system a couple of components at a time as finances allow. My focus is currently on a surround sound receiver, or preferably a surround sound preamp processor. I want it to be a quality component that can double for 2-channel listening. I recently posted about the Marantz AV8003. I got the opportunity to listen to it and liked it a lot. However, the thought of spending $1,500 - $2500 on something that might be outdated after a year or two is very irksome to me. I got to thinking that I would like to get something from a company that “upgrades” its components as technology progresses. The only two companies that I know that do this are NAD and Anthem.

I am looking for advice on companies that produce quality components that also stick by their gear with upgrade options that keep them current… and oh ya, can’t cost a fortune to obtain. The most I am willing to spend is $1500 for the existing component. To be honest, I don’t know how much these types of upgrade components or software typically cost. Thanks for any and all help. Garth

Phil A · « **Reply #1 on:** 21 Feb 2010, 02:30 pm »

Unfortunately most video or digital technology tends to change much more rapidly than for instance power amp technology. I have 3 systems, main, bedroom and basement. For the main, i go with a pre/pro and will live with its limitations for processing when its time is up (I'll eventually upgrade mine to something with HDMI). For the bedroom and basement systems, I'll buy something new less frequently and they get hand me downs from the main system at times. You could also consider a good quality preamp with home theater bypass and just get a cheaper receiver. When the technology changes you can just get a new receiver and perhaps use the other one in a different system.

Phil A · « **Reply #2 on:** 21 Feb 2010, 02:36 pm »

Here's a couple of examples (the latter one you can pick up used as places like Audiogon within your price range)

http://emotiva.com/usp1.shtm

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superioraudio/equipment/0905/modwrightswl90se.htm

Ambiance · « **Reply #3 on:** 21 Feb 2010, 05:35 pm »

I am also thinking of Anthem Statment D2v my self.. Only I havent heard anyone tested it them self. Have you any info conserning D2v?

A.

srb · « **Reply #4 on:** 21 Feb 2010, 05:56 pm »

I can't imagine a high end expensive processor from Bryston or Anthem, for example, costing less than $1500 to "upgrade".

Steve

JuanR · « **Reply #5 on:** 21 Feb 2010, 06:13 pm »

Check Outlaw audio, they even have usb port to upgrade the software. It is in your price range. Ther new preamp will be out soon ,with options like hdmi etc.

srb · « **Reply #6 on:** 21 Feb 2010, 06:36 pm »

Most processors have some method to update firmware, whether through a USB, Ethernet or serial port. And it is quite valuable to fix software bugs and offer 'enhancements'.

But some years down the road, when new surround formats or connection options appear, a true 'upgrade' will likely require swapping out a circuit board(s) with new processor chips and/or connection ports.

Steve

skunark · « **Reply #7 on:** 22 Feb 2010, 09:54 pm »

The wrinkle in that upgradeable home theater receiver/processor will always be the video and sometimes hardware limitation on the digital audio connectors. Software updates are nice and love it when they work, but they only seem to buy you a few years. It's probably too early to tell but with 3D Video coming, most receivers/processors could already be outdated even though my very old PS3 will support it.

If you don't mind having your TV do the video switching and prefer pre-amps that focus on audio fidelity you can check out:
Parasound P7: 2x7.1 ch, unbalanced; balanced output; around 2k
McIntosh C45: 2x5.1 ch, unbalanced; balanced output, around ?4-5k; and
Audio Research MP1: 2x5.1 ch, unbalanced, 1x5.1 ch balanced/unbalanced; balananced output; around ?7.5k.

It's not really a compelling price point if you like the Marantz and you would really have to value audio much more than video to even consider those. I do think the Marantz AV8003 is very competitive and you get balanced outputs along with a whole host of other features that you may or may not use.

Otherwise I think Outlaw, Emotiva and Onkyo would be the biggest bang for the buck if you needed video switching for today's formats. You can even look for a used surround-sound processor with mutli-channel inputs if you are happy with your TV doing the video switching.

I do wish my TV would offer DD/DTS on the toslink output instead of downgrading it to 2ch audio. That would probably satisfy my needs as I can let the various video sources funnel through the TV that are only 2-channel or 5.1 audio and still have the better than cd-quality with a good blu-ray player.

Funny or interesting thing is I would probably get the oppo digital player to pair up with any of those listed above.

ctviggen · « **Reply #8 on:** 22 Feb 2010, 09:57 pm »

The Outlaw and Emotiva look interesting. I'll be checking those out.

gkinberg · « **Reply #9 on:** 23 Feb 2010, 05:28 am »

I couldn't believe how expensive it was to upgrade the Anthem gear. It was basically $4600 to upgrade an AVM30 to an AVM50v. I should have realized this considering the cost of their equipment but sheez.

The bottom line of this post is me trying to get a "free lunch"; a cheep way to get into hi end upgradable gear. Of course there is no free lunch. Oh well.

Quote from: srb on 21 Feb 2010, 05:56 pm

I can't imagine a high end expensive processor from Bryston or Anthem, for example, costing less than $1500 to "upgrade".

Steve

gkinberg · « **Reply #10 on:** 23 Feb 2010, 05:35 am »

One of my main issues with Oulaw and Emotiva is that they don't allow networking. Otherwise I would consider them. I want to play music off of my computer wav files. In addition, I think networking will continue to become more useful and important. Probably not a ture audiophile approach, but I'm not really an audiophile. I just like my music to sound good. Hence the fact that I'm willing to go for a used Marantz but not the uber gear.

Therefore, I ended up picking up a used Marantz 8003 at a screaming deal. Hopefully not DOA from ebay.

Cheers, Garth

gkinberg · « **Reply #11 on:** 23 Feb 2010, 05:47 am »

Quote from: skunark on 22 Feb 2010, 09:54 pm

I do wish my TV would offer DD/DTS on the toslink output instead of downgrading it to 2ch audio. That would probably satisfy my needs as I can let the various video sources funnel through the TV that are only 2-channel or 5.1 audio and still have the better than cd-quality with a good blu-ray player.

Skunark - I don't think I understand your conectivity. It appears to me that you have sound running to your TV, through cable presumably, and then you would want to route it to a surround sound processor? It seems to me that you would route your source to your processor and then to your TV. I'm sure you have your constraints that I'm not aware of or maybe I'm just confussed. Thanks for your inpurt by the way.

Garth

skunark · « **Reply #12 on:** 23 Feb 2010, 08:25 am »

Grats on your purchase, I'm sure the Marantz will perform extremely well. It's definitely made it to my shortlist recently.

I'm probably one of the few that refuses to have a cable box and selected to use CableCARD for my HDTV feed and can either use the digital or line out on the TV to connect to the processor. However, the digital out will not work for any HDMI sources (not just downgrade, just flat doesn't). I have an older processor that has a single toslink, coax and 5.1 channel inputs which limits the options since all the HDMI sources I own (PS3, Xbox360, AppleTV) only offer additional toslink outputs and none offer the 5.1 analog channel outputs.

Sadly though, I'm the only one in my house that understands how everything is connected together and routing the gaming consoles and the Apple TV through the TV seems to make the plebs happy

. I do have just three desires, 1. get blu-ray back in surround sound, 2. have an audio focus (2 balanced inputs and 2 coax inputs) and 3. easy enough for the everyone else to use.

The Marantz will accomplish most of that but I have my eye's set on the Bryston SP3 when it becomes available. Either one would be a huge upgrade in my system, but I'm leaning towards the Bryston since their focus is on the audio circuitry. I've ruled out a few others in the SP3 price-range because I'm afraid one would frighten the plebs with all the buttons on the front, another because the salesman couldn't operate it and another because the internal picture showed about a dozen boards.

--Jim

ctviggen · « **Reply #13 on:** 23 Feb 2010, 12:08 pm »

Quote from: gkinberg on 23 Feb 2010, 05:35 am

One of my main issues with Oulaw and Emotiva is that they don't allow networking. Otherwise I would consider them. I want to play music off of my computer wav files. In addition, I think networking will continue to become more useful and important. Probably not a ture audiophile approach, but I'm not really an audiophile. I just like my music to sound good. Hence the fact that I'm willing to go for a used Marantz but not the uber gear.

Therefore, I ended up picking up a used Marantz 8003 at a screaming deal. Hopefully not DOA from ebay.

Cheers, Garth

I use a modified Squeezebox for getting music off the network. I may transition to a USB DAC, if one of these turns out to be good, but then I'd include a HT computer in the system. So for me, networking is not useful, other than it could make updating the product easier.

Since I already have a receiver I can use for the upstairs system and a bryston 5 channel amp for the downstairs system, the Outlaw or Emotiva would be perfect for the downstairs (HT) system.

BobC · « **Reply #14 on:** 23 Feb 2010, 01:18 pm »

I had the same questions. Went with a dedicated stereo line stage with HT bypass (Odyssey Candela) for my music and a lower cost AV Receiver (Marantz 6003) with all of the latest connections and codecs for TV and Movies.
I stream in my music via a Locitech Duet through a CA DACMagic to my Candela.

This way I get top notch audio and don't have a huge investment in a receiver which will be outdated literally in 1 year. (BTW the 6003 has already been succeeded by the 6004, so case in point!)

Downside is more remotes and a manual switch at the sub (because I have both the line stage and the receiver sending signal to the sub).

Bob

ctviggen · « **Reply #15 on:** 23 Feb 2010, 02:57 pm »

The real way to fix the remote situation is to buy an RF/IR remote and RF receiver. This way, your gear can be anywhere. These systems get expensive, though.

gkinberg · « **Reply #16 on:** 23 Feb 2010, 05:52 pm »

I'm somewhat new to this stuff and am still learning. Therefore, I thought that using a PC to stream audio via network would be best for me as well as keep costs down; we’ll see.

My plan is to use my older Yamaha 730 HT receiver to do the amplification until I get a respectable amplifier down the road. It then accrued to me that I’m not sure how to set it up because it doesn’t have any balanced or unbalanced inputs on the back to receive the signal from the prepro. Any suggestions as to how to make this work or am I stuck buying a new amp? I thought that maybe I could just run speaker wire from the analog out of the processor to the binding posts of the receiver and then from those same binding posts to the speakers. Is this plausible or the dumbest noob idea ever?

Thanks for any help - Garth

srb · « **Reply #17 on:** 23 Feb 2010, 06:10 pm »

Quote from: gkinberg on 23 Feb 2010, 05:52 pm

Any suggestions as to how to make this work or am I stuck buying a new amp?

Most likely stuck buying a new amp.

Quote from: gkinberg on 23 Feb 2010, 05:52 pm

I thought that maybe I could just run speaker wire from the analog out of the processor to the binding posts of the receiver and then from those same binding posts to the speakers. Is this plausible or the dumbest noob idea ever?

The latter.

Some A/V surround receivers have preamp outputs to send to a multi-channel external amplifier, but virtually none have main-in power amp inputs. (Some stereo amps or receivers may have pre-out and main-in jacks connected with jumpers so that they can be separated).

You could conceivably connect the preamp outputs of the Marantz to the 6 channel (5.1) analog input of the Yamaha, but you would be going through two preamps, and most likely muck the sound up, but it is possible and you could try it.

I think the better solution would be to get a 5-channel amp, even if it is a less expensive one for now, to be upgraded later. 5-channel amplifiers similar to the Rotel RMB-1075 or the Marantz MM-9000 go for about $500 used, and would still be a huge performance leap over trying to use the Yamaha receiver.

Steve

gkinberg · « **Reply #18 on:** 24 Feb 2010, 05:53 pm »

As srb mentioned, I will probably need to get a new amp. I have narrowed down my interim amplifier selection to mate with my soon to receive Marantz AV8003 and soon to purchase SongTowers and SongCenter or Acoustic Zen Adagio front three. I will eventually by a Van Alstine 240/3 to power my front three speakers but for now I need something cheaper to power my 5 channel set up. The choices are:
Rotel RMB-1066, Used, 6 X 60 watts, $300
Marantz MM9000, Used, 5 X 170 watts, $550
Emotiva UPA-5, New, 5 X 125 watts, $549

I am considering the Rotel because it’s cheap, has good reputation and has additional utility with the six channels.
I’m considering the Marantz because there might be some synergy pairing Marantz prepro with amp.
I’m considering Emotiva because its new, comes with warranty and has good reputation.

I’d rather spend around $500 or less, any comments or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, Garth

srb · « **Reply #19 on:** 24 Feb 2010, 06:24 pm »

I don't know what speakers you currently have and how efficient they are, but the Rotel RMB-1066 is more intended for use as a zone amplifier to power 3 pairs of speakers in other rooms.

It will certainly work for you, but I think you will probably be happier with one of the other more powerful 5 channel amplifiers, particularly if it might be a year or two before you replace it.

Steve