XR-45/25 in a 2.1 setup?

gastro54 · « **on:** 28 Jan 2004, 01:31 am »

(How) Is it possible to use either the xr-45 or 25 in a 2.1 setup? how would i go about doing this? i looked @ the long thread on these two receivers. I know i have to use a crossover for the woofer, but need to know what connections to make for a 2.1 setup to work. I dont want to buy an individual woofer amplifier

I'm making a 2.1 diy setup for my room.

The speakers are bipolar TangBand w-871s
TB W3-871S shielded paper cone full range speaker.

Specifications: Nominal impedance 8 ohms, DCR impedance 6.6 ohms, sensitivity 1W/1M 87 dB, Fs 125 Hz, VC diameter 20mm, air gap height 6mm, rated power 15 W, max power 30 W, BL 3.47, Mms 1.79 g, Qms 6.24, Qes 0.76, Qts 0.68, Vas 1.35, Cms 0.929, Xmax 0.5, Le 0.313

The woofer is a sealed Shiva from Adire Audio

Re 2.9 ohms Le 2.12 mH
Qms 6.5 Mms 125 grams
Qes 0.40 Cms 0.47 mm/N
Qts 0.38 Rms 2.54 N*s/m
Fs 21 Hz Sd 481 cm^2
Vas 151 liters BL 11.30
Xmax 16.6 mm one way EBP 51
SPL 87.3 dB @ 1W/1m No 0.37%
Pmax 375W per voice coil; 650W total to the driver

JohnR · « **Reply #1 on:** 28 Jan 2004, 01:39 am »

Hi, I guess you would just set the mains to small and turn off the center and surrounds.

OK, so the Starting Block seems to be still figuring what it's agenda is, but I don't think product-specific questions are really in its domain. I'll move this to 2-channel where I think you'll get more useful responses.

Now... if *only* there were a Panny Owner's Circle...

(private joke

)

gastro54 · « **Reply #2 on:** 28 Jan 2004, 01:44 am »

o crap , meant to post this in the starting block :/ sry

gastro54 · « **Reply #3 on:** 28 Jan 2004, 01:47 am »

wow, im retarded, i did post it in starting block, but you moved it

, thanks, haha.

Tyson · « **Reply #4 on:** 28 Jan 2004, 05:29 am »

You gotta have a sub amp. Lucky for you there are a few good ones out there that are cheap, crown, crest, carver, and QSC all spring to mind.

maxwalrath · « **Reply #5 on:** 28 Jan 2004, 03:30 pm »

I just checked my emails from Wayne...according to him, "It does has a sub woofer line level output, but the lowest the crossover goes is 100 HZ."

dwk · « **Reply #6 on:** 28 Jan 2004, 03:42 pm »

As with virtually all HT-oriented receivers, the subwoofer output on the Panny is line-level The only way to use the built-in crossover is to direct the bass to this line-level sub output, so there is no way around the need for an amplified sub.
The only real way to drive a sub and a sattelite with the Panny amplifier channels would be by using passive xovers and Party Mode, but then you wouldn't be using the built-in xover at all - it would simply be another form of bi-amping

I'm actually running my system as 2.1 using the XR-25's xover, and I have to say that it's pretty darn good. As was covered, set the mains to 'small', turn off the center and surrounds, and set the sub xover to 100 which is as low as it goes. If it wasn't for the 100 Hz limit on the xover, I think this could truly be viable as a long term solution - the xovers seem to be very well implemented and don't detract from the basic sound quality of the unit. Certainly more than good enough to tide me over for a while.

Wayne1 · « **Reply #7 on:** 28 Jan 2004, 03:43 pm »

The Panny WILL work for 2.1.

You can set the Panny to small L and R speakers, which will eliminate all frequencies below 100 hz from your mains. You will need to turn off the center and surrounds, as stated by JohnR

It does have a crossover at 100 hz, for the line level sub output.

It does not have an amplified output for a subwoofer.

You would have to purchase one.

There are MANY options available for sub amps.

You can use any of the pro audio amps, as suggested by Tyson. You can also look into the many plate amps, as suggested by Brian.

maxwalrath · « **Reply #8 on:** 28 Jan 2004, 03:47 pm »

Wayne, can you still bi-amp in small mode? I envision my RM1's bi-amped and adding a sub at some point. Is this possible?

Wayne1 · « **Reply #9 on:** 28 Jan 2004, 04:20 pm »

Max,

You can, but I don't see why.

The RM-1 has a crossover at 166 hz. There really would not be much going to the woofers. You can run the L&R speaker outputs in small (100 Hz x-over) to go to the mid and tweeter panels and the surrounds in large (full range) for the woofers.

I would suggest that you just set the speaker outputs to large and let the passive crossover in the VMPS do it's job.

I have been using my RM-626Rs in Large and using the sub out into my Larger Subwoofer. I do change the crossover on the sub amp down to 80 hz.

You can just use the sub to fill in the very low end where the RM-1s start to roll off.

Tyson · « **Reply #10 on:** 28 Jan 2004, 04:36 pm »

Well, I"m not wayne, but the answer is yes, you can run "party mode" AND have a sub out. For the RM-1's I'd recommend sending them a full range signal (setting the fronts and rears to "large"), you can still send a sub out, and just use the sub's crossover to do the blending with the mains.

Of course, idealy there would be selectable crossovers from 40hz up to 120 hz at 5hz intervals. I'm sure at some point a direct digital receiver will exist that has that option, but it doesn't yet, and not sure when it will.

HarleyMYK · « **Reply #11 on:** 28 Jan 2004, 05:16 pm »

I am thinking about getting a 45 for the RM 1's in our den (casual listening mostly) and running them like I understand Tyson has been running the RM 40's (full range all the way, party mode, binding posts to the mids-highs, and quick clips to the woofers with L/R reversed). If it works for the RM 40s all the better for the RM 1s. I run this setup a lot with a Sony 300 CD ES series megastore that has a pretty good DAC, but I am looking forward to what the 45 can do with the optical digital out.

Now I just need to find someone who has them in stock. Everyone seems to be sold out.

randog · « **Reply #12 on:** 28 Jan 2004, 05:55 pm »

If you wanted to run 2.2 or 5.2, can you use the line-outs for the mains (I believe it has them for the main L&R only) for your stereo subs, and use the speaker binding posts (internal amp) for your mains? Or does using one defeat the other?

If so, does it also mean you would need to run your mains at full range and use the crossover settings on your sub amps?

Randog

Wayne1 · « **Reply #13 on:** 28 Jan 2004, 07:03 pm »

There are no preamp outs. The SA-XR45 has a second room output and there are record outputs, but these only work with analog inputs and output a fixed level.

You cannot input a digital signal and get any output from these jacks.

The sub output can be turned on or off from the set-up menu. The line level sub output is a mono signal. There is no way to run true stereo subs from the SA-XR45 unless you use PARTY mode, and run the subs from the surround speaker outputs, full range, and use a passive crossover on your subs.

Donman · « **Reply #14 on:** 30 Jan 2004, 04:28 pm »

Along these same lines, my interest is to do 2.1 with my maggie 1.5s. Do I need and external crossover to bi-amp them in party mode(xr-25) or will the split signals still utilize the internal crossover? I understand some speakers bypass the internal when bi-amped, but I'm not sure about the maggies.
While I'm here, I'll add that I have had my xr-25 connected for three days and I must say that they do the maggies well. Though there is much more break-in time remaining, I'm very happy thus far. My bottom end is much stronger than with my HK AVR 80(running full range on both), though the HK is a bit smoother mid on up for now. I'm running deep into the 40's in my large and "loose" room, often making me re-think that somehow my subs got into the system somehow.
Minor mods down the road--pc and bypees I imagine. Thanks

randog · « **Reply #15 on:** 30 Jan 2004, 04:36 pm »

Quote from: Wayne1

There are no preamp outs. The SA-XR45 has a second room output and there are record outputs, but these only work with analog inputs and output a fixed level.

You cannot input a digital signal and get any output from these jacks.

The sub output can be turned on or off from the set-up menu. The line level sub output is a mono signal. There is no way to run true stereo subs from the SA-XR45 unless you use PARTY mode, and run the subs from the surround speaker outputs, full range, and use a passive crossover on your subs.

Wayne, thanks for the clarification. So, in other words, they are pretty worthless. What threw me was the illustration showing them ported to a free-standing amp. In reality I guess it needs to be an integrated amp with volume control.

These are good only using the XR-45 as an analog preamp then without volume control, eh? Like I said, pretty worthless, especially considering analog isn't purported to be its strong suit. Too bad.

gastro54 · « **Reply #16 on:** 4 Feb 2004, 03:35 am »

Ok, since it looks like I have to buy a plate amp, I have looked @ these two from apexjr, I would like the amp to be $100 or less (student), and these seem to be around what I am looking for. http://apexjr.com/ApexJunior.htm" target="_blank">Junior http://apexjr.com/Audiofile.htm" target="_blank">AudioFile Now since these amps both have an integrated adjustable crossover, I am a little confused as to how that would work seeing that the xr-45/25 has a crossover for the low-level output as well (100hz perfect since that is where i wanted to cross-over originally), thoughts?