Ken Dawkin's Vice President of Thiel Loudspeakers Reports

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James Tanner

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"Perhaps I wanted to get my assets in gear before my marriage, but I decided after seven years of enjoying my two-channel AV system that I needed an upgrade. I replaced the amps, pre-amp and DAC. My daydreams featured Bryston and more Bryston, especially after auditioning the 28B’s numerous times, including the new SST2 version.

Alas, there is only so much money in the till, so I was lucky enough to secure a new pair of 7BSST2’s and a BDA-1 DAC. For the record, these replaced a pair of Classe CAM 350’s, (musical to be sure but a little shallow in the deep end) and a Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista 21. The remainder of my slightly kluged set-up is shown below. I use an integrated amp for my preamp enabling me to run other speakers around the house independently or together. This piece is new as well and not Bryston branded because I needed some unique features for my new family to be able to use the system easily and to also limit the damage they can do.  One other change was to replace my single-ended interconnects to my SACD player with balanced tentacles. My funky room remains 16x27 with a17-foot vaulted ceiling. The room is open on one side and there are two large windows and a stone fireplace on the other. Ouch.

The amps were added to my system first. Initially I expected to notice a big gain in bottom octave improvement.  While partially true, it was the soundstage and the resolution that had me saluting. My SACD player has a number of good qualities such as its’ natural warmth and build quality. But, at least until now, the music seemed to arrive from the two speakers only, tough to swallow with CS6’s that are known for offering a big stage.  I immediately retrieved much of that back with the Bryston amps. I noticed this especially on a Red Book recording of Lalo Schifrin with the London Philharmonic doing both a jazzy version of The Firebird Suite and yet another arrangement of his own Mission Impossible theme. Smooth jazz sax man Everett Harp’s “Juke Joint” from his “My Inspiration” CD presented a big in-room performance not previously experienced with this fun, if simple ensemble track. On Patricia Barber’s Modern Cool SACD, her band went appropriately beyond the plane of the speakers, especially north and south and front to back.

The superb resolution of the 7B’s was clearly evident when using a feature I have mostly ignored on the Marantz SACD player, the ability to select different filters. With the Classe amps I noticed little difference from filter one, two or three. Not true on the Brystons. I now have a preference for filter one and can tell the subtle differences from one to the other. It almost forces me to change filters on every recording so I can audition the nuances.

The other neat experience came this past weekend with a room full of future relatives watching the Super Bowl. Yes, it was network TV but now the sound matched the HD picture. The rugged bottom end improvement was noticeable both during the game and toward the end of The Who concert at halftime.

The Bryston DAC is even more of an ear opener. I honor your decision to add so many inputs to this baby. I run my Blu-Ray player, iPod transport and 5-disc changer through the BDA-1 and it is truly an amazing revelation.  Two non-audiophile examples are worth noting.

The first example is a “guy’s” B movie now on DVD from the 80’s called “Roadhouse” with Patrick Swayze. Not noted for anything other than bar fights, naked women and related language, this movie is still a neat escape for those of us in need of inane brainless entertainment. I hate to admit I have seen this movie more than once, but never have I heard the thuds from bodies landing on the floor, the shattering of beer bottles crashing through the wire fence protecting the band on stage or the crunch of the monster truck running rabid through a Ford dealer in such vivid detail, or their respective locations so well pinpointed. Even the soundtrack that focuses largely on what are supposed to be bar performances by The Jeff Healy Band actually became listenable. This was not to say the DAC was adding anything to what was there, but it revealed everything that was there, warts and all, honoring what our THIEL speakers do.

A WAV file recording on my fiancé’s iPod of the Vegas show band Santa Fe and the Fat City Horns, “When The Curtain Goes Up” left me unable to really discern the difference from the original CD through my Marantz only, a good thing. The entire system felt effortless as I leaned on the volume button more and more. Overall from each source connected to the BDA-1there is a palpable tonal balance that I don’t remember having before from any of my sources save the CD player.

In summary, the shear ease and relaxation I find in driving my CS6’s with the 7BSST2’s along with the numerous subtle and not so subtle upgrades I hear in the source components running through the BDA-1 DAC leave me with the rather content feeling that this is the best system I will ever need to own. Bring on the wife, the teenager and the dogs!"


Ken Dawkins


System
Speakers: THIEL CS6’s and THIEL SS2/PX05 SmartSub®
Amps: Bryston 7BSST2 monoblocks, Sim I-7 Integrated (as preamp)
Sources: Bryston BDA-1 DAC, Marantz Reference SA-11S2 SACD player, Marantz 65 SE 5-Disc changer, Sony 2000ES Blu-Ray DVD player, Wadia 170i iPod transport, Polk Xrt12 XM tuner, Music Hall 2.2LE Turntable with NAD PP3 Phono Amp, Sharp 62U LCD TV.
Wire: Kimber Monocle XL speaker, Transparent Ultra, Goertz Sapphire and Straight Wire Serenade interconnects, Monster HDMI and component video, and Transparent, Richard Gray and Straight Wire power cords.
Power conditioning/protection: Richard Gray 400 and PS Audio Duet.

95Dyna

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Re: Ken Dawkin's Vice President of Thiel Loudspeakers Reports
« Reply #1 on: 12 Feb 2010, 03:51 pm »
Hi James,

Thanks for sharing Ken's review.  This is another encouragement for me as a 7B SST2 owner. The CS3.7's are at the top of my list should I decide to replace my Infinity 9 Kappas with new speaks.  When there are so many testaments to the compatibility of Bryston and Thiel out there one can begin to believe it's true.

Bill

werd

Re: Ken Dawkin's Vice President of Thiel Loudspeakers Reports
« Reply #2 on: 12 Feb 2010, 03:53 pm »
It sounds like the the Bryston/Thiel combo really shines...  :thumb:

werd

Re: Ken Dawkin's Vice President of Thiel Loudspeakers Reports
« Reply #3 on: 12 Feb 2010, 04:22 pm »
A system consisting of a BCD1, BP26, 14B or 7B and the Thiels CS6 cabled can all be had for under $20k.

I think a big problem with high end audio is its reputation for astronomical pricing. Although 20k seems like a lot this amount can easily be spent on a single piece alone. The companies that provide excellent quality and reasonable pricing are the ones that will thrive. They will also be the ones that are recognized for bringing high quality gear back into the mainstream for public consumption, not just for gearheads like us to appreciate.

Laundrew

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Re: Ken Dawkin's Vice President of Thiel Loudspeakers Reports
« Reply #4 on: 12 Feb 2010, 04:42 pm »
Personally I believe Bryston amplifiers can sound great with any speaker - the secret is in the neutrality of the amplifiers. For the “nay” Sayers still out there - I wonder how they would do in a “blind” listening audition, I imagine the results would be very interesting.

Be well…

VOLKS

Re: Ken Dawkin's Vice President of Thiel Loudspeakers Reports
« Reply #5 on: 12 Feb 2010, 05:00 pm »
THIEL is a speaker i have always been curious about........gonna have to give them a listen....wonder how the CS3.7's would sound hooked up to the 4BSST2/BP 26 combo?

werd

Re: Ken Dawkin's Vice President of Thiel Loudspeakers Reports
« Reply #6 on: 12 Feb 2010, 05:25 pm »
THIEL is a speaker i have always been curious about........gonna have to give them a listen....wonder how the CS3.7's would sound hooked up to the 4BSST2/BP 26 combo?

probably great

yyz

Re: Ken Dawkin's Vice President of Thiel Loudspeakers Reports
« Reply #7 on: 12 Feb 2010, 05:34 pm »
I only came to appreciate the Thiel line in the last year. I knew the name but not the sound. After hearing the CS 3.7 with Classe I was blown away. I auditioned a few speakers in the past 18 months in the $20000 and under range and the CS 3.7 was the one I decided to build my system around.

I do not have the floor space for the CS 3.7 yet so bought the Thiel SCS4 monitors 4 weeks ago. Now after sufficient burn in I am a very happy camper. For my small apartment they are fantastic.  These speakers will eventually become rear surrounds in an all Thiel 5.1 setup.
I also bought a Torus RM15 last week and plugged in all my gear to it. Including 2 7B-SST's. I also bought a pair of used Bryston PP300 (same as 4B-SST) which I will swap with the 7B-SST hopefully next week. I did not want to use my 7B-SST long term on the SCS4’s. It sounds great but I think I could blow the drivers with that much power. I hope the PP300 sounds as good as the 7B-SST with these small speakers.

As you can see I am sold on the Thiel/Bryston combo. The sound is exciting, clean, clear, none fatiguing, a big winner in my books.  All I need is one more Bryston PP300 for a center channel and I am set for a very long time. 

BTW – My BAT VK 42SE pre-amp works great with the amps and I think is also a big contributor to the my non-stop listening sessions.

yyz

Re: Ken Dawkin's Vice President of Thiel Loudspeakers Reports
« Reply #8 on: 12 Feb 2010, 06:39 pm »
THIEL is a speaker i have always been curious about........gonna have to give them a listen....wonder how the CS3.7's would sound hooked up to the 4BSST2/BP 26 combo?

The dealer that sold me the Torus RM15 owns the CS 3.7 and is using the Bryston PP300 (4B-SST) with them. He was very happy with the sound.


CABrystonOwner10

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Re: Ken Dawkin's Vice President of Thiel Loudspeakers Reports
« Reply #9 on: 12 Feb 2010, 06:58 pm »
THIEL is a speaker i have always been curious about........gonna have to give them a listen....wonder how the CS3.7's would sound hooked up to the 4BSST2/BP 26 combo?

We have used the 3.7's with 9B SST (no square) and the 9B did a very good job. The 4BSST2 should do significantly better.




CABrystonOwner10

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Re: Ken Dawkin's Vice President of Thiel Loudspeakers Reports
« Reply #10 on: 12 Feb 2010, 07:11 pm »
I only came to appreciate the Thiel line in the last year. I knew the name but not the sound. After hearing the CS 3.7 with Classe I was blown away. I auditioned a few speakers in the past 18 months in the $20000 and under range and the CS 3.7 was the one I decided to build my system around.

I do not have the floor space for the CS 3.7 yet so bought the Thiel SCS4 monitors 4 weeks ago. Now after sufficient burn in I am a very happy camper. For my small apartment they are fantastic.  These speakers will eventually become rear surrounds in an all Thiel 5.1 setup.
I also bought a Torus RM15 last week and plugged in all my gear to it. Including 2 7B-SST's. I also bought a pair of used Bryston PP300 (same as 4B-SST) which I will swap with the 7B-SST hopefully next week. I did not want to use my 7B-SST long term on the SCS4’s. It sounds great but I think I could blow the drivers with that much power. I hope the PP300 sounds as good as the 7B-SST with these small speakers.

As you can see I am sold on the Thiel/Bryston combo. The sound is exciting, clean, clear, none fatiguing, a big winner in my books.  All I need is one more Bryston PP300 for a center channel and I am set for a very long time. 

BTW – My BAT VK 42SE pre-amp works great with the amps and I think is also a big contributor to the my non-stop listening sessions.

We have a 9B driving a Center SCS4 and performance is impressive. The PP300 should do better.





Phil A

Re: Ken Dawkin's Vice President of Thiel Loudspeakers Reports
« Reply #11 on: 12 Feb 2010, 09:12 pm »
I use the 14BSST (with 3.7s) and the 6BSST for the center and rears and also the BDA-1.  Sounds great.  I also love that the Oppo BDP-83 passes DVD-A over the coax out.  I listened to a 24/192 disc last night through the BDA-1  Great stuff

vegasdave

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Re: Ken Dawkin's Vice President of Thiel Loudspeakers Reports
« Reply #12 on: 12 Feb 2010, 09:37 pm »
Having heard Thiel and Bryston 3 years in a row at CES, I can confidently say it's a great matchup.

But, no vinyl for Ken? What a pity...

jrc

Re: Ken Dawkin's Vice President of Thiel Loudspeakers Reports
« Reply #13 on: 13 Feb 2010, 03:43 am »
Vegasdave, you must have missed this...
Music Hall 2.2LE Turntable with NAD PP3

95Dyna

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Re: Ken Dawkin's Vice President of Thiel Loudspeakers Reports
« Reply #14 on: 13 Feb 2010, 05:18 pm »
Uh oh, I feel my wallet starting to jump around in my pocket.  You know, there is an emotional side to this Thiel thing as well.  I would feel great honoring the life and work of Jim Thiel by making the 3.7's the last speakers I buy.

Laundrew

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Re: Ken Dawkin's Vice President of Thiel Loudspeakers Reports
« Reply #15 on: 13 Feb 2010, 07:05 pm »
Uh oh, I feel my wallet starting to jump around in my pocket.  You know, there is an emotional side to this Thiel thing as well.  I would feel great honoring the life and work of Jim Thiel by making the 3.7's the last speakers I buy.




Now this is a finish for a speaker :o

werd

Re: Ken Dawkin's Vice President of Thiel Loudspeakers Reports
« Reply #16 on: 13 Feb 2010, 07:25 pm »
^ not sure if i like that, maybe real nice hard to say.

werd

Re: Ken Dawkin's Vice President of Thiel Loudspeakers Reports
« Reply #17 on: 13 Feb 2010, 07:36 pm »
Interesting read from Thiel's blog off their web site regarding the past CES show.

http://www.thielaudio.com/weblog/2010_01_01_archive.html


Laundrew

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Re: Ken Dawkin's Vice President of Thiel Loudspeakers Reports
« Reply #18 on: 13 Feb 2010, 08:27 pm »
^ not sure if i like that, maybe real nice hard to say.

Awesome finish and a lot of work for sure, but for me, I like a much darker finish for my speakers.

Be well...

95Dyna

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Re: Ken Dawkin's Vice President of Thiel Loudspeakers Reports
« Reply #19 on: 13 Feb 2010, 08:55 pm »
Interesting read from Thiel's blog off their web site regarding the past CES show.

http://www.thielaudio.com/weblog/2010_01_01_archive.html

Thanks for posting the link, werd.  I have the Bryston's and the WireWorld loom (albeit the Silver Eclipses--sound just fine to me) now all I need is the 3.7's.