[mca]

My dedicated home theater/music room has been treated with an Eighth Nerve room pack along with a set of framed responses in the front corners. The sound took a large step towards the better but I am wondering about something that does not seem to get much mention around here. What is the best way to treat 1st order reflections on the sidewalls and ceiling?  I was told when I ordered the room pack that seams could be used, but in my mind they would not be large enough to cover enough area on the walls. How large should they be? I am not a DIY’er so I’m looking for something that I can buy that would match the black Eighth Nerve stuff to get the job done.
My back wall is lined with Boltz CD and DVD racks that are full and I am told they should do a good job with diffusion. I have a window in the top right corner that is covered with heavy cloth drapes but the top left corner is bare wall that is about 4’ high by 4’ wide. Would I further improve sound by adding a diffusion panel in that spot?

[DARTH AUDIO]

www.auralex.com   Ask for Gavin.. Send them a drawing of your room and they will design a solution.

[satfrat]

mca, I'm in the process of trying out a product for just that purpose. I presently have Golden Sound Acoustic Discs in the corners along with an 8th Nerve Echo & Seam package. I was able to pick up 3 Furutech RWL-1 Tuning Panels from Jim Wang of Harmonic Tech. I was lucky to get them as he only had 5 and they as of yet aren't being carried in the US. A search at Google of the product will show you some pictures and a description of these panels from the Furutech website and from www.acoustic-revive.com that gives the dimensions/weight/price(yen) and placement illustrations but not much else unless you can read japanese. Furutech says that these tuning panels will amplify, an interesting concept for room treatment. The RWL-1 only weights <6lbs so they can not only be mounted on the walls but on the ceiling also. This is one place that you hardly ever hear anyone talk about. So I'll try it.  I expect to be receiving them sometime this week and I plan on a review of sorts as I'm a total amateur here. Oh ya, they are not cheap, $392/each in Japan. As far as I know, I'm the first one to purchase this product. If I don't like them, wanta buy them off me? Regards, Robin

[ekovalsky]

http://www.acousticsfirst.com

John Casler pointed me to them when I was looking for room treatment.  I didn't bother with the 8th Nerve, their products were too small to create the LEDE room I wanted for my VMPS speakers.

I have a bunch of the  Respond panels and Geometrix quarter round bass traps, all 6' tall.  Panels are covered in fabric and reasonably attractive, much nicer than foam.  Eventually drapery fabric will be hung around the periphery of the room which will conceal the panels.

Cost isn't too bad, the 2" thick, 2' x 6' absorption panels only run about $70 or so delivered, basically $1 per sq ft.  Less for the 1" panels.  There are larger and smaller standard sizes, and they will make custom sizes too (charged at rate of next larger standard size).

Price list here http://www.acousticsfirst.com/docs/.  Buy direct, they don't offer any significant discount to dealers.  Lead time was about three weeks for my order.

[7V]

The size of the panels will depend on the frequencies that you're dealing with. If you're talking medium and high frequencies - say over 1kHz - you could try the 'mirror method'.

You sit in your listening chair and a friend holds a mirror against the wall. Where you can see the speaker drive units in the mirror is where you place the panels.

I would be tempted to try panels made of closed-cell, expanded polyethylene or similar because you could probably pick up off-cuts for free from a supplier. They are easy to cut to size/shape and you could always cover them with a fabric for aesthetics - woollen blankets work well. Try looking up 'Zotefoams' in your search engine and ask for LD45. I'm based in the UK so I'm not sure but I think Kentucky rings a bell.

Finally, you may prefer to move the speakers a little in from the side walls and experiment with increasing the toe-in. This usually does more to take the room out of the equation than even the most expensive panels.

Steve

[Carlman]

What I did was to take a fiberglass ceiling tile (2'x4') and then staple it to a 2x4 piece of thin particle board/plywood.  Then, I wrapped it with fabric and stapled the fabric to the back.  I'll put some photos in the DIY circle soon.  
4 panels cost me about $50 with 30 of that being in the fabric.  I got the tiles for $2/each because they were ugly.  However, they're normally $4 each.  I don't know the frequency responses of these tiles but, it certainly helped make my room quiet and less reflective.  I have 2 tiles at the primary reflective points and then 2 more at aesthetically pleasing points.

For $50 and about 2 hours, I don't think you could find better.

-C

[BrunoB]

What I did was to take a fiberglass ceiling tile (2'x4') and then staple it to a 2x4 piece of thin particle board/plywood.  Then, I wrapped it with fabric and stapled the fabric to the back.  I'll put some photos in the DIY circle soon.  
4 panels cost me about $50 with 30 of that being in the fabric.  I got the tiles for $2/each because they were ugly.  However, they're normally $4 each.  I don't know the frequency responses of these tiles but, it certainly helped make my room quiet and less reflective.   ...

What about lining your walls with a nice fabric? A coarse one would help to diffuse sound.

Bruno

[Carlman]

I considered lining the walls but, it was too expensive to consider.  I could do foam, fabric, etc.. but, to cover each wall with JUST fabric would've been close to the thousand dollar range.  (considering about $4 per sq ft of fabric over about 200 sq ft of wall space... and that's without gathering the fabric... so, you'd actually need 400 sqft of fabric to do it right.)

[BrunoB]

I considered lining the walls but, it was too expensive to consider.  I could do foam, fabric, etc.. but, to cover each wall with JUST fabric would've been close to the thousand dollar range.  (considering about $4 per sq ft of fabric over about 200 sq ft of wall space... and that's without gathering the fabric... so, you'd actually need 400 sqft of fabric to do it right.)

Hmmm .... what about table cloths made of fabric? At least as a temporary solution such that you can experiment and find the room  acoustic you like. About $12 for a large rectangular piece at Wal Mart. You could also visit Home Depot.  They work better if there is some space between the fabric and the wall.

[DSK]

I would be tempted to try panels made of closed-cell, expanded polyethylene or similar...

Closed-cell foam is useful for anti-resonance platforms for your components, but you need open-cell foams for sound absorption (transfer of energy to heat).

[7V]

Closed-cell foam is useful for anti-resonance platforms for your components, but you need open-cell foams for sound absorption (transfer of energy to heat).

Thanks for that DSK. I've got some under a pair of tube monoblocks which were a bit noisy. I wondered why they were so effective. I actually came across the material when it was used for Aikido mats.

[7V]

It reminds me of when I launched my speakers at the Frankfurt High End Show.

After many months of work I finally arrived at the hotel to set up the equipment. As soon as I entered the room I knew I was going to have problems with the acoustics. The room was a box with concrete walls and it sounded like a large bathroom. When I switched on the system it sounded horrible. I was devastated.

With the show starting the next day all I could borrow was a blanket and a duvet. I tacked them onto the walls and all was well again.

Well, just thought I'd mention it.

[zybar]

Here is a couple of pics of my MiniTraps.  These have made a very noticeable difference in my room.

Pic 1:



Pic 2:

[mca]

Zybar,

What brand are your mini traps and where did you get them from? Trying to get as many options as possible  

[zybar]

www.realtraps.com

Ethan is a great guy to work with.

GW

[jgubman]

What's the best style of mounting side panels?

I was planning on ordering a few of the acoustics first response panels that Eric recommends earlier. I have 8th nerve corners and echoes sprinkled lightly around the room, and I think that instead of a few seams, I'd rather get a big panel for the 1st reflection points (side wall mounting, next to the speakers).

Do these panels work best if spaced a few inches from the wall?

I was thinking about mounting a 2x4 or two to my side walls and mounting the response panels to the 2x4(s). Is there any point to this or should I just mount them flush w/ the wall?

[Psychicanimal]

Where's the Smurf?

[John Casler]

The single best and simplest acoustic treatment I have found is "hanging" 24" x 48" x 3" acoustic foam panels from the ceiling.

I am very sorry this looks like "hell", but it does such an incredible job I thought I would share it.

In most of your listening rooms the biggest single "problem reflection" is likely the ceiling.

The bad news is, they look so bad, I doubt if you would leave it up all the time.  

The good news is:

1) 6 well placed sheets can solve most all of your reflection problems.  Even 2 sheets like I show will work wonders.

2) In a carpeted room you can get the effects of LEDE or just about any other type of acoustic treatment for pennies

3) They can be "put up" (using map pins) and "taken down" in a couple minutes.

4) They cost $165 for 8 sheets

http://www.foambymail.com/Wedge.html

In the photo below I show the ones that hang between me and the speakers.  The incredible soundstage that results (if your system has that ability) is nothing short of miraculous.

These can be placed diretly to the side and also directly behind you.

Now don't blame me for how bad this looks,  but do blame me for how incredible it sounds  

While mounting the foam "on the wall" is good, placing it closer to you, the listener, does a much better job.

Is this how "Chuck" started???  Maybe it's a disease and it can spread through lists like this?   Maybe keyboard contact transmission?

[Carlman]

I agree this is not a good look.  However, what if I got some of this 'wedge foam' in white to match the color of the ceiling.. and mounted it to the ceiling?  Would the effect be 10-50% of the hanging method?  It would certainly help cut down ceiling reflections.

Or is ceiling covering another topic entirely?  I have the rough texture there already... you know that spray-on stuff that's out of style in new homes these days.. ?

[jgubman]

Thanks John, I just ordered a 8pack of those 3" wedges like you suggest (and have in the past, i know, i know....).

I think the wife would kick me out on my ass and probably be in a big enough rage to throw the RM-40s out after me if I tried the "fly strip" approach of dangling foam (won't stop me from trying it the next time she's out of the house for awhile though....). Do you suggest to put the "fly strip" 1/2 distance btwn me and the front speakers, directly in between the L&R? I'm a little confused.

As an alternative (although an alternative my wife still won't go for...), will tacking some foam to the ceiling above the L & R speakers have a similar effect? Would it be better against the ceiling 1/2 btwn the seat and the fronts?

thanks