Any advice for ceiling panels

topround · « **on:** 11 Feb 2010, 12:36 am »

I will be honest, I know nothing much about acoustic treaments.
I have the required panels for my reflection points, the ceiling corners, and some panels in the corners.

I would like to treat my ceiling. Do I used absorbtion, reflection, refraction?

Any advise would be appreciated.

Room is 13 by 18, 8 foot ceilings

Thanks

Mike

drphoto · « **Reply #1 on:** 11 Feb 2010, 06:04 am »

I hung a GIK 242 on my ceiling, about half way from listening position to speakers centered between speakers. Made a huge difference. More than side wall reflections IMHO. Reduced a an upper mid glare that I thought was due to my SS pre. I might try adding another one (one for each speaker), but I'm happy for now. You're on the right track. The room is so important. I might play w/ diffusion down the road, but like you, I'm not sure where to put it. Rear wall?

I had obvious 'slap' echo I had to tame. My first step was some BB absorption.

I'm beginning to believe some of the post that have stated they'd rather listen to a decent rig in a good room, than a great one, in a bad room.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #2 on:** 11 Feb 2010, 10:58 am »

Quote from: drphoto on 11 Feb 2010, 06:04 am

I'm beginning to believe some of the post that have stated they'd rather listen to a decent rig in a good room, than a great one, in a bad room.

I absolutely believe that- 110%.

laserman · « **Reply #3 on:** 11 Feb 2010, 09:24 pm »

Hi Mike,

In my one listening room I have them at the first reflection spot hanging down about three inches for the dry wall. I read some where about having a little air space's behind them. It's just one opinion...as you can see from the pictures of Arthur's room.

You may want to PM Arthur since he just went through a re-do of his room.

Good luck with this journey. I think it will net you huge benefits.

Lou

Nyal Mellor · « **Reply #4 on:** 11 Feb 2010, 09:28 pm »

I would use straight absorption panels that have constant absorption above the transition frequency (c. 250Hz). If you use compressed fiberglass you need 3" panels to meet this requirement. This is to prevent a reflection that is frequency spectrum distorted.

satfrat · « **Reply #5 on:** 12 Feb 2010, 05:53 am »

I use a Furutech RWL-1 Tuning Panel on my ceiling, centered lengthwise between my main Lorelei's @ the 1st reflection point. Along with having 2 of these Furutech diffusion panels on the 1st reflection point of the side walls, they help make my 11' x 17' room sound way larger than it actually is.

Cheers,
Robin

K Shep · « **Reply #6 on:** 13 Feb 2010, 05:51 am »

Quote from: topround on 11 Feb 2010, 12:36 am

I would like to treat my ceiling.

You may purchase all of the materials for DIY panels here:

http://www.atsacoustics.com/cat--DIY-Acoustic-Materials--102.html

Sound-Doc · « **Reply #7 on:** 15 Feb 2010, 06:23 pm »

Trying to improve the music from your speakers with room treatments is like putting a beautiful frame around an ugly picture. Speaker placement is the single most important aspect to any quality music system. Start with that and you will find that room acoustics are "only interesting" as far as you enjoyment of music is concerned.

Bob in St. Louis · « **Reply #8 on:** 15 Feb 2010, 07:00 pm »

Quote from: Sound-Doc on 15 Feb 2010, 06:23 pm

Trying to improve the music from your speakers with room treatments is like putting a beautiful frame around an ugly picture. Speaker placement is the single most important aspect to any quality music system. Start with that and you will find that room acoustics are "only interesting" as far as you enjoyment of music is concerned.

DING...DING....
Round one, let the fights begin.

timztunz · « **Reply #9 on:** 15 Feb 2010, 07:09 pm »

Quote from: Sound-Doc on 15 Feb 2010, 06:23 pm

Trying to improve the music from your speakers with room treatments is like putting a beautiful frame around an ugly picture. Speaker placement is the single most important aspect to any quality music system. Start with that and you will find that room acoustics are "only interesting" as far as you enjoyment of music is concerned.

And once you have your speakers properly positioned and you find that you have reflections, standing waves, the sound just too lively, etc., you would do..............what? I agree 100% that properly positioned speakers is Job 1. But after that, I think there could be circumstances that could require more action. At least that was my personal experience.

laserman · « **Reply #10 on:** 15 Feb 2010, 07:09 pm »

Oh Bob, you are such the kidderererrrrr!

Sound-Doc, with all due respect, this may be true in some nearfield set-ups and rooms that are designed and furniture equiped to pass a measurement. However, it's not true in most normal rooms. I was like you before I discovered how much the room detracts from a system. In prior homes, I was fortunate not to need much in the way of acoustic room treatment, but in my current home it was absolutely required in both listening rooms. Please keep an open mind and try experimenting with different acoustic and defraction items because maybe it will be a benefit for you.

Lou

zybar · « **Reply #11 on:** 15 Feb 2010, 07:12 pm »

Quote from: topround on 11 Feb 2010, 12:36 am

I will be honest, I know nothing much about acoustic treaments.
I have the required panels for my reflection points, the ceiling corners, and some panels in the corners.

I would like to treat my ceiling. Do I used absorbtion, reflection, refraction?

Any advise would be appreciated.

Room is 13 by 18, 8 foot ceilings

Thanks

Mike

Realtraps RFZ panels will do the job quite nicely on the ceiling.

http://www.realtraps.com/p_rfz.htm

I currently use them at the first side reflection points and will add them to the ceiling sometime this spring.

George

K Shep · « **Reply #12 on:** 15 Feb 2010, 07:35 pm »

Quote from: Sound-Doc on 15 Feb 2010, 06:23 pm

Trying to improve the music from your speakers with room treatments is like putting a beautiful frame around an ugly picture. Speaker placement is the single most important aspect to any quality music system. Start with that and you will find that room acoustics are "only interesting" as far as you enjoyment of music is concerned.

I think in this case post count means everything.

oneinthepipe · « **Reply #13 on:** 16 Feb 2010, 02:54 am »

Quote from: Sound-Doc on 15 Feb 2010, 06:23 pm

Trying to improve the music from your speakers with room treatments is like putting a beautiful frame around an ugly picture. Speaker placement is the single most important aspect to any quality music system. Start with that and you will find that room acoustics are "only interesting" as far as you enjoyment of music is concerned.

We aren't trying to improve the music from the speakers. If we want to improve the music from the speakers, we would look to the speakers or the components before the speakers. We are trying to reduce the degradation to the music caused by room acoustics.

Ethan Winer · « **Reply #14 on:** 16 Feb 2010, 04:32 pm »

LOL, another acoustic treatment denier.

--Ethan

Jeffrey Hedback · « **Reply #15 on:** 16 Feb 2010, 06:03 pm »

I would add that the ceiling is too often neglected. Often speakers are designed with tightly controlled vertical dispersion which leads some to think that there is not a big issue with the ceiling (no on-axis energy). Even if there is no on-axis energy, there is a great deal of transient and off-axis energy. These factors are dominant when listening beyond the critical distance (simply meaning the room reflections are greater than direct sound). The "right" ceiling treatment is relative to room factors...can be broadband absorbers, diffusors or hybrid thereof. You can't go wrong with a solid broadband panel like the 3" fiberglass referred above.

There are deeper areas to delve into like psychoacoustics and individual ear physics...meaning that people do factor vertical reflections differently.

Since Art's room was referenced in this thread, I utilized (as designer) a "tuned" absorptive panel with a 2.125" thickness. This panel is intentionally linear below 500 Hz and increasingly reflective above. This was selected in relation to acoustical design in whole, speaker type, placement, room volume, ceiling height and aesthetic options.

bpape · « **Reply #16 on:** 16 Feb 2010, 06:10 pm »

Quote from: oneinthepipe on 16 Feb 2010, 02:54 am

We aren't trying to improve the music from the speakers. If we want to improve the music from the speakers, we would look to the speakers or the components before the speakers. We are trying to reduce the degradation to the music caused by room acoustics.

OP

There are a variety of things that can be accomplished on the ceiling depending on the situation. There are reflection issues from off axis as described above as well as potential modal issues with regard to the height of the room. Those would be treated at different places and using different methods.

Bryan

mfsoa · « **Reply #17 on:** 16 Feb 2010, 07:42 pm »

I have just what drphoto has (242 centered/1st reflection point).

Big improvement although it'd be nice to have an extra foot out to each side.

Considering putting 2 GIK diffusers up there (As Bryan has said he favors, I think) but am happy for now.

-Mike

ted_b · « **Reply #18 on:** 16 Feb 2010, 07:50 pm »

I have Ethan's RFZ's at wall and slope ceiling first reflection points. A major source of soundstage focus and clarity. And when I added his HF version of the Minitraps to the ceiling area of first reflection the whole soundstage took another "click" into focus. Anyone who says room acoustics are over-rated is obviously not paying attention to his/her largest piece of audio equipment.

timztunz · « **Reply #19 on:** 16 Feb 2010, 08:08 pm »

I don't really know if it's appropriate for me to ask this here as I don't want to hijack the OP's thread. But we have something of the same question and maybe answers for each of us would help each of us. I think there are enough pictures of my room in the Gallery section for you to see the size and shape of my room, the ceiling architecture and the room treatments I have done so far. But when it comes to the vaulted areas of the ceiling I'm at a loss as to the best course of action. Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

If I should not have asked this here, please disregard.