[natemil]

Hi Dave,

It's been a while since we last chatted.  How's everything?

I'm still enjoying the 1801s.  At one time, I had the 1801's hooked up to HSU VTF-3.  However, having a 3way seems more favorable.  I would be interested in getting a kit from you and having the cabinets build.  Is this in the back burner, or will it be available at a foreseeable time?

Doug

[David Ellis]

Well,

The 1801 will not be upwards compatible to the SCC300 (12" woofer) due to the sensitivity issued mentioned earlier in this thread.  It will hopefully be upwards compatible with the 10" on the bottom project.

Yes, all of this 3-way stuff is certainly on the back-burner.  I have several 1801s to finish, a deck to build and a Masters degree to finish.  These things will all get finished before further projects (i.e. 3-way speakers) are accomplished.  I am a one-man-show and have very limited time.  My current projects have been pending for considerable time.  I must finish these before doing anything else.

Forseeable return to these projects in... 3-5 months??

Dave

[David Ellis]

Dear Ellis,

I am following your work with great interest for almost one year now. Great job. I want to ask you coupl of questions:
- when do you think that you will have time (if interested) to launch a 3-way kit
- what do you think about using Great Heils for highs and some mids?
- what do you think about having the crossovers at 800 hz and 1600 hz for this kind of design?

Anyhow I am waiting to get one of yours firsts 3-ways kits with GREAT interest.

Fair questions.

Well,  I have 3 pair of 1801s to finish before I resume my work on the 3 way speakers.

IMO, the Heil drivers are decent, but not better than what I already use.  I heard these at CES 2002.  IMO, the very best speaker at CES that year was the Joseph Audio Pearl.   I heard a prototype that was very impressive!

The only real downside to the OW dome tweeters is they lack any special marketing zing.  They don't visually look like anything special.  They are a black dome with black face plate - boring.  Then I consider my focus and integrity in this endeavor.  I will continue to focus on those things with a tangible audible advantage.  An audible advantage/superiority is expensive and I am fine with this.  However, I am uncomfortable purveying something with little/no audible advantage for more $.  As such, it seems improper of me to charge a customer more $ for something that is merely a marketing ploy(i.e. a fancy ribbon).  I do realize this may eventually contribute to my demise, but I'd rather be honest than rich.

Please consider that under that very plain black dome of the OW1 there is about 35 years of Danish wisdom and experimentation from a very brilliant and hard working man - Oskar Wroending.  This man was the G.M. for Scanspeak for many years.  Fortunately for me, Oskar grew tired of the corporate business and remains very happy while building a superb tweeter in his home workshop.  

There are reasons why a product works well.   Hard work, intelligence and focus are significant factors.  While Mr. Heil has an impressive resume, Oskar Wroending is a very grounded person too.

Summary:

Your query regarding Heil drivers is fair.  I would use better drivers in my speakers, but I truly don't think better drivers exist.

Have you ever heard a Hiquphon tweeter?

Have you ever heard the Josph audio Pearl?

Sincerely,

[rmihai0]

Dear Dave,

thank you. Indeed I think you are on the right track. And as I said I will be one of the firsts that will get a 3-way kit from you. Just let me know, if posible, when those will be available.

Notre respect

[David Ellis]

You will see notice of any completed projects posted on this forum.  Thanks for your interested and... patience.

[rmihai0]

Dear Dave,

others are trying to help you and give you their opinions from the technical perspective. It happens that I am a financial analyst for a investment bank and my area of expertise is exactlly this: electronics and home audio.

I do understand your goal: to build a speaker for life. But please reconsider and listen to my advise:

- this is a neverending story (or at least it should be, to enjoy new projects). So, don't think to this project as to one that will provide you (or your customers) a speaker for life. Also the customer may dont wanna this. Each 3-5 years they will like to see and try new things
- Coming back to pricing: our studies are showing that the Maximum price it should be $1050 USD. Why is that? Because from a profitability perspective there you will have the maximum sales.

Increasing the price to $1200 will result a decrease in sales of about 25% (amazing for only $150).

I might expect your response to be something like: I am not into profitability and alike. But this is not the only point: the other poit is that pricing to a max $1050 you will allow 25% more people to enjoy your speakers and the music they provide.

[mcgsxr]

Interesting point about price elasticity, mr rmihai0, but I suspect that for niche producers such as Ellis, the formula is markedly different, and so should the marketing be...

Mark in Canada

[David Ellis]

I think we are on the same track.

I do understand your goal: to build a speaker for life. But please reconsider and listen to my advise:

When I ordained the 1801 it was inteded to be a speaker for life.  I wanted something I would be willing to enjoy for life.  I remain very happy with this speaker.  I also understand that different/better products may change my perspective on this.  I would be very happy to entertain better drivers/components as time and $ permits.  

My wife (Corporate Controller) and I have discussed this facet of business success and agree that change is 1 thing necessary for long term success.  This makes very good sense.  Really smart guys will come out with better products.  A childhood friend of mine has his Ph.D in Physics with a ceramics focus.  He suggested there are ways to alleviate resonance in ceramics.  Unfortunately a few molds and testing would cost about $50k.  The conversation was brief because we both know how much $ is possible in hifi.

Increasing the price to $1200 will result a decrease in sales of about 25% (amazing for only $150).

This is very good information, and seems to follow with my intuition.  

With the 1801, I aimed at $500, and managed to sell speakers with cheap crossover components for $525.  While this was sensible, about 85% of folks wanted the better crossovoer components.  This cost @$650, but folks wanted the better stuff internally.  Most of these folks had "average" source gear.  I found this a little strange, but went "with the flow".

As I approach the issue of a 3-way I realize there is a $1k break-point.  However, I am not sure where the crossover components will pan-out.  My guess is the speaker kit will cost about $1100, but this is only a guess.  It won't be $1k.  It'll cost more than this.  My goal with the bigger 3-way and the SCC300 is that it will be arguably be the best speaker on the planet.  This follows my goal with the 1801 - arguably the best 2-way speaker on the planet.  Did I achieve this??

I am indeed concerned with profitability, but believe this follows the establishment of a very solid reputation based on outstanding products.   The price folks are paying for my speakers is primarily based on my credibility.  Building a reputation based on outstanding products is my focus.  This takes consderable time and effort.  Then, I have a fabulous wife and 2 wonderful boys too

[EProvenzano]

Keep up the good work Dave
...oh, and put me on that list of 'SCC300 on the bottom' buyers

Have fun with those boys.
All the best,
EP

[Doc Jr 8156]

Dave,
I'm eagerly following this thread.  Put me on the list as potential buyer for the SCC also.  I hope your design will materialize sooner than later.  Already have the tools to make my cabs!  I really want to have an 1801's but I'd rather wait a while for the "big brother'. Godspeed.