[Wayner]

With any cartridge, it's the entire TT that tells the true story and that list would not be possible to create. We are giving the recommended arm weight range as a help, but certainly there are other issues, perhaps unique to each table, concerning compatibility. This is true with any cartridge arm/table combo.

Wayner

[Toni Rambold]

Dear Mr. Wayner,

for a tone arm/cartridge combination the resonance frequency f is given by the following formula:

 f = 1/(2π√((ms+mt)c))

c is the compliance and ms denotes the weight of the cartridge and mt the effective mass of the tone arm.

The data for the Grado cartridges can be found on their website: gradolabs.com.

For the whole Prestige Series the system weight is specified ms = 5,5 gram and the compliance c = 20x10^-6 cm/dyne.

The ideal resonance frequency should be around 10 Hz.

So if you convert the formula and calculate the “ideal” effective mass of the tone arm should be around mt = 7,2 gram.


Regards Toni

Hi Toni,

If I understood the specs correctly, with the longhorn mod added, that added 2 to 2.5 grams cartridge weight to the equation. So won't that make a difference as to the arm freq. and ideal weight?

Ray Bronk

Hi Ray,

Yes, indeed !
If you have a cartridge with a compliance of 20x10^-6 cm/dyne and a system mass ms = 7,5 gram
and the resonance peak should be in the middle between the extreme bottom and the warp region
at the ideal resonance frequency f = 10 Hz the "ideal" effective mass of the tone arm is
mt = 5,2 gram.
So you can use an Infinity Black Widow II, the one with the carbon fibre arm tube and the
damping device or a damped SME 3009 III.
Both arms have an effective mass of 5,7 gram and the calculated resonance peak will be at
f = 9,8 Hz.


Regards Toni

[Wayner]

Toni,

We are probably not interested in recommending tonearms that cost thousands of dollars to our customers. While I understand your insistence on the "utopian" arm weight, the true fact is, this cartridge will work on a host of arms that all fall within acceptable resonance frequencies. Even the lowly Technics SL-1200 arm will put the resonance frequency at about 7.5 hz, still within acceptable boundries.

A good rule of thumb is that the lighter the arm, the higher the resonance frequency and this is where trouble starts.

Wayner

[Russellc]

frank, I have a question I've wondered about since I first saw your Longhorn modification instructions.  It concerns the 1000 centistroke liquid silicon.  the instruction to put a "tiny drop in the little hole the stylus comes out of" is clear enough, but the part where you say "The cartridge body gets a few drop of 1000 centistroke liquid silicon into the coils" is what I didnt understand.
Exactly where is the silicon put in?

I've wondered 20 years or so, I think its time to pick up a grado and go to the hobby shop!

Thank you for any info that would help here,

Russellc

[Wayner]

If you look at the cartridge with the stylus assembly out, you will notice 4 very small magnets mounted to a plastic plate. If you look on either side of this plastic plate, you can see the coil windings. What we do is put a small drop of silicone on each coil. This stops harmonics within the coil. The silicone, in time will migrate around the coils.

Wayner

[Russellc]

I figure the answer might appear if I just bought one and took a look, thanks for the reply.  It seems like Grado used to provide two versions of many of their less expensive carts, one with a lot less susceptibility to hum with tables having unshielded motors, Like my heavily modified (but with original motor) AR "The Turntable."  Anyone know if that's still the case?

russellc

[boycephoto]

Hey Russellc,

I worked in a hi-fi shop from the mid 70's to the early 80's and sold many Grado cartridges from the $29 bargain FCE+ to the $600 Signature 7 and everything in between.  I never heard of any Grado's that were more or less susceptible to hum.  I had several Denon tables, a DP3000 & Dp6000, a Harmon Kardon ST7 and a Linn LP12 all with Grado cartridges. The Linn is the only one that humed with a Grado.  I believe the Denon tables have AC motors as does the Linn but never had a problem with Denon.

[TheChairGuy]

I figure the answer might appear if I just bought one and took a look, thanks for the reply.  It seems like Grado used to provide two versions of many of their less expensive carts, one with a lot less susceptibility to hum with tables having unshielded motors, Like my heavily modified (but with original motor) AR "The Turntable."  Anyone know if that's still the case?

russellc

Russell,

You are correct.

Grado made and makes 1.5mv versions of their products (today, only the Woodie/Reference series is offered this way...from VPI and a dealer in Iowa I believe).  These can be used in some, but not all, moving magnet (MM) inputs...without the need for additional amplification.

As well,  Grado makes 0.5mv versions of the Woodie series that call the 'Statement' series.

In both cases, the windings are considerably shorter...and, thus, less affected by electromagnetic (EM) radiated by transformers (turntable power supply itself or other power supplies about) around the cartridge.

The lesser-priced Prestige series is only manufactured in truly high-output 5mv versions (that will hum on certain, quite few in actuality, decks).

John

[boycephoto]

TheChairGuy,

Thanks for the update, when I sold hifi Grado only made hi output cartridges although now that I am thinking about it maybe some of the Signature models did have lower output. We didn't think any thing about it, cartridges were either hi output MM or low output MC.  I am aware of the newer lower output model but didn't know that they were less susceptible to hum, but it make sense.  Great info.

Thanks Dave 

[TheChairGuy]

Russellc & Dave/boycephoto,

Thinking more about this from last night...

Grado Prestige1 series, like that which Audio by van Alstine sells as the basis for their Longhorn modified cartridges, is a recent innovation from Grado (about a year+ now).

They are supposed to have less coil windings and less moving mass (by 17%) yet still have the same robust 5mv output as the prior Green and Gold (non-1) models. With less windings, they should exhibit lower inductance (all other things equal) - which should make them 'quieter' (ie, exhibit less self-generated noise). 

Less inductance alone may well be why many prefer moving coil over moving magnet or iron designs....it would seem in one fell stroke Grado re-engineered their Prestige line so it is less susceptible to hum, exhibit less self-generated noise, and faster transient speed.  So, the need for the lower output 1.5mv series seems effectively muted, at least theoretically, based on this redesign.

I don't know if Wayner tests the Green1 and Gold1 he modifies for voltage output...but, I suspect that the newer models have a little less output than the old non-1 series. But, it's still likely more than robust enough at perhaps 4mv or so (I'm only speculating on this, but Wayner chiming in on voltage output on these would be neat to know)

Final proof is always in the listening of course I have a (belt drive) VPI Classic...a great sounding deck, however, it makes a poor pairing with my previous Grado's as it has an unshielded AC motor and there is some underlying hum using Grado's. I cannot stand hum myself...but love Grado's and love this deck...so it's been a vexing issue for me

I recently bought a Gold1 and will be seeing if all the engineering changes Grado claims for the new series, ACTUALLY reduces hum interaction with the VPI Classic. I have a non-1 Gold cartridge, which is my favorite high output cartridge, on hand to compare directly against.  I have two removable tonearm wands for my excellent JVC QL-Y66F direct drive turntable - so I'll be able to compare old and new Gold cartridge versions in nearly the same test parameters.

btw, both Grado Gold and Gold1 will be Longhorned a la Frank van Alstine's recipe (a truly wondrous upgrade for Grado's...that recipe is nearly heaven sent and I have thanked Frank profusely for his genius on this one over the years )

I'll eventually report on that in the Critic's Circle or Vinyl Circle in time....so, tune in

John (Facilitor Vinyl and Critic's Circles)

[Wayner]

Grado specifications are 5mv at @ 1kHz, 5cm/sec output. I believe this value has changed from previous models as I have an old spec that claims 4mv. Weight is specified at 5.5 grams, however, I have weighed one awhile ago and it's actually at 6 grams.

All cartridges that are shipped from here are mounted and listened to for at least an hour. I use my Technics SL1200MKII as the "test table" and have a special headshell with fixed cartridge fasteners, so I can quickly mount the cartridge in an aligned position.

There have been zero hum issues with this DD table.

On another note, I am soon to receive a band new model TT that is belt drive from a well known manufacturer that has a high promise of performance, with low cost and hopefully will be a "fusion" table for the Grado 1 series of cartridges. I should have it by next Thursday and will begin evaluating this table at that time.

While it would certainly be wonderful to have a compatibility list for every make and model of TT, it's just not feasible at this time. I am slowly aquiring a list, but there are even some non-main stream tables all ready. That is why there is a 30 day money back guarantee with our Longhorns.

Wayner 

[Russellc]

Grado specifications are 5mv at @ 1kHz, 5cm/sec output. I believe this value has changed from previous models as I have an old spec that claims 4mv. Weight is specified at 5.5 grams, however, I have weighed one awhile ago and it's actually at 6 grams.

All cartridges that are shipped from here are mounted and listened to for at least an hour. I use my Technics SL1200MKII as the "test table" and have a special headshell with fixed cartridge fasteners, so I can quickly mount the cartridge in an aligned position.

There have been zero hum issues with this DD table.

On another note, I am soon to receive a band new model TT that is belt drive from a well known manufacturer that has a high promise of performance, with low cost and hopefully will be a "fusion" table for the Grado 1 series of cartridges. I should have it by next Thursday and will begin evaluating this table at that time.

While it would certainly be wonderful to have a compatibility list for every make and model of TT, it's just not feasible at this time. I am slowly aquiring a list, but there are even some non-main stream tables all ready. That is why there is a 30 day money back guarantee with our Longhorns.

Wayner 
[quote/]

Well, I have a Scillia/Merrill modded AR the Turntable which still has its unshielded motor.  As soon as I get a few other projects out of the way I will pick up one of these Grados and see if it hums or not.  If not, I will perform the longhorn mod to it.  I think the AR tables caused hum problems for some back in the day as I recall. We'll see if it has improved along these lines, and I can compare it to Ortofon OM-30 and Shure V15VxMR in both Black Widow and or Magnepan Unitrac tone arms.  Should be fun.



Russellc

[Wayner]

If your AR has a Haydon motor, then it's shielded. You can't tell if the motor is shielded by looking at it. It depends on the materials used to encase it. In the case of the Haydon motor, the outer body is made from mu-metal and the shaft is a non-magnetic stainless steel. It is a very hum free motor. Some later tables had a Hurst in them, and these were not as well shielded.

Wayner

[Artie]

Newbie here. I just wanted to say "thanks" to Frank, both for making his newsletter available for download and for sharing construction details for the Longhorn with us. I found this forum from an AudioKarma thread about the Longhorn. I'm hoping to build my own prototype soon.

Thanks Frank.   

Artie

[Mitsuman]

Newbie here. I just wanted to say "thanks" to Frank, both for making his newsletter available for download and for sharing construction details for the Longhorn with us. I found this forum from an AudioKarma thread about the Longhorn. I'm hoping to build my own prototype soon.

Thanks Frank.   

Artie

You won't regret it. You can pick up the materials from most any hobby shop.



The end result is well worth the effort. Patience, and a good magnifier is required. 

[trebejo]

Oh, don't you dare imagine that we don't know what you're trying to do here.

You guys are NOT going to take me back to vinyl, with the discwasher ritual and the electron gun (loved zapping my girlfriend with it  ) and the obsessing about snack crackle pop and is my needle wearing out (vinyl on graphite?!?!) and getting up every 20 minutes to put on music and making my friends think I'm a selfish prick because I won't lend them my records since they won't clean them when they play them and... and...

 

 <sigh> That Longhorn mod looks wonderful. I wish I'd done that back in the day... 

[rcag_ils]

the electron gun (loved zapping my girlfriend with it )

Come off it, if you really had one of these guns, you would know that it doesn't zap anything, so I doubt that you really zap your girlfriend with anything at all. It's not really called electron gun, by the way.

[trebejo]

Come off it, if you really had one of these guns, you would know that it doesn't zap anything, so I doubt that you really zap your girlfriend with anything at all. It's not really called electron gun, by the way.

 

Hmmm, I think you could use some tags to mood surf...

</good mood>
<sour mood>
What the hell? Were you there in my dorm room in the 1980's, buster, that you can tell me what I did or did not do to my records?

Go ahead, use your own keyboard and your own precious time to look the precise brand name for the thing--nearly three decades after the fact, other factoids have lodged themselves between the ears to bump this one out. "Electron gun" is of course a joke (which we were all in on when we took Physics 1C), since getting pelted with even a single loose electron is an experience that we're not likely to require of any girlfriend we want to keep.

The rationale for the electron gun (I'm starting to like the fact that it ticks you off to read this) was to cut down on the static, snack crackle pop, etc., all of which was clearly present when we took a record out of its plastic sleeves. Don't ask me if it actually worked on the records, but it sure worked on each other.

We had our rules, we were not yahoos: no zapping on eyeballs, tongues, open wounds or other moist body surfaces; genitals were right out (although male nipples were fair game); and no zapping on the temples unless you were a Psych major.

Of course you're probably such a genius that you just got rid of the static by discarding the plastic sleeves and putting the records straight into the cardboard jackets. But if you didn't quite go that radical, and assuming that you are not a poser and you actually own one of these wonderful ELECTRON GUNS, why don't you go ahead and zap yourself one on the forearm for me? Don't worry, that little electron can't hurt a big audiophile like you!

</sour mood>
<good mood>

Go ahead, zap away, meanwhile I go ahead and down another brewski to your good health.

[Wayner]

Put the Milty Zerostat to your personals and pull the trigger. Then you can try to tell me that it doesn't work.

Wayner

[Toni Rambold]

  ... just checked it out, Mr. Wayner ... 



... the Zerostat works fine...



... so does the Grado in an "utopian" silicone damped unipivot with an effective tone arm mass of 7,5 gram ...