[guest1632]

See page 3 post #41

Hi Wayner,

Well, I would, but since I am a person who is blind, can't see the pics.

Hey Frank,

To bad Micro Acoustics is not around any more. I read somewhere that to make them sound there best, take away the 47K load. They were just a bit ahead of there time.

Ray Bronk

[Wayner]

Ray,

Years ago, Frank felt that the Grado Green had lots of potential for being a well balanced cartridge, for the money. It, however, had some tracking issues. Then he invented the Longhorn and history was made. This time around, and having heard a Grado Gold Longhorn, it was decided that 2 different offerings may bring a better balance to the product line.

Wayner

[avahifi]

Ray, best bang for the buck is exactly right.

Frank

[turkey]

Hi Wayner,

So what is the difference between the two cartridges stock, and  and modified? So if you have to replace the stylus of the cartridge, do you have to modify the whole thing again?

The difference between stock and modified is that damping has been applied to the stylus and coils and the Longhorn bar has been attached.

The damping is done by squirting in some silicone oil.

can't see and for some reason having trouble imagining what this looks like.

The Longhorn bar is a horizontal bar attached to the front face of the cartridge. It sticks out on either side of the cartridge about 3/4".

[Minn Mark]

I would appreaciate any new owners let us know how the new Longhorns work while using a record clamp.

I have SOTA Comet and use the SOTA reflex clamp (because I can hear a difference). I migrated away from my 'old' Longhorn because the modification always hit the clamp, many times before the final inner cut had finished.

Please post along with any other listening impressions.

Thanks,

Mark

[Wayner]

The physical size has not changed from the original.

Wayner 

[Listens2tubes]

The Longhorn looks like this.



Admitedly this is my old Grado DIYed using Franks instructions and no silicone injections That noted the Longhorn made this a far more enjoyable old timer to my ears.  

[rcag_ils]

Years ago, Frank felt that the Grado Green had lots of potential for being a well balanced cartridge, for the money. It, however, had some tracking issues. Then he invented the Longhorn and history was made. This time around, and having heard a Grado Gold Longhorn, it was decided that 2 different offerings may bring a better balance to the product line.

just wondering how did Frank find the tracking issues, if he found it by listening, can you tell me what did it sound like?

[avahifi]

When you hear phono cartridge mistracking, you will know it.   

The sound includes a shatter, a buzz, a geeek, hard to name, but it is bad when it happens.

Frank

[rcag_ils]

I also like to mention, when azimuth misadjusted, it'll sound like what Frank has described, but in either one channel. Cartridge misalignment, VTA misalignment, worn stylus will also sound like that but in both channels.

[Wayner]

We now have replacement stylus for the Green (and Gold) in stock. If you have an old Longhorn and want to get it refreshed, now is the time. I will install the new (treated) stylus, fire it up in my table and give it a listen, and ship it back to you in a hurry.

I will plead stupidity on the stylus replacement costs, so please ask Frank.

I also have 1 Longhorn Gold, and 2 Longhorn Greens available for immediate shipment. My new policy is to always have stock, so you do not have to wait. We have had a few sales already and thanks to those who have taken the plunge, I hope you are enjoying them.

Wayner     

[Brett Buck]

The sound includes a shatter, a buzz, a geeek, hard to name, but it is bad when it happens.

   I have one record (Sheffield Harry James) where any standard cartridge jumps the groove. The stock Grado green sends it up about 1/8". Longhorn on the same cartridge  - no problem, aside from maybe blowing the speaker fuses.

      Brett

[jrtrent]

We have had a few sales already and thanks to those who have taken the plunge, I hope you are enjoying them.

My recently acquired Longhorn Green1 is acquitting itself very nicely on my LP12/Ittok.  I've liked many aspects of the sound of the Grados in the past on this turntable, but they did struggle with loud passages, especially when those were near the end of a record side, even when tracking at the two gram maximum setting.  The Longhorn has handled everything very nicely at Wayner's recommended one and a half to one and seven tenths grams.  Not a hint of unease at the inner groove; smoother, more powerful vocals; orchestral crescendos handled with far less strain and congestion; and, yes, improved resolution of detail and dynamic contrasts.  Wayner's craftsmanship in applying the Longhorn appears impeccable.  The Longhorn Green1 has proven to be a terrific bargain.

[Wayner]

I have some new information regarding the Longhorn Gold1 and Green1. My friends at Grado Labs has supplied me with the following bit of information. Both Grado cartridges have a dynamic compliance rating of 20. This is a specification that is not normally published, but may help some of those ridding the fence on deciding whether to buy or not (regardless if it's a Longhorn or regular Grado). A plain Grado weighs 6 grams and a Longhorned version, 7.5 grams.

This make almost all arms compatible with the cartridge, that are in the 10 to 25 gram range. The 10 gram arm is a little light, with the resonance frequency approaching 12 hz, while the heavier arms will put the resonance frequency at about 7 hz. Clearly, the acceptable window is between 5.5 hz and 14.5. The ideal arm would be about 15-20 grams.

To determine your arm's weight, you really need to have a digital scale that will go up to about 30-40 grams. Step one is to remove the counter weight. This puts all of the arm's weight on the head end. If you do this with a cartridge installed, you'll need to protect the stylus, or remove the cartridge all together to prevent stylus damage. Simply put the end of the tonearm on the scale and read the weight (in grams). If you have a cartridge installed, simply subtract the weight of the cartridge from the total weight to capture the arm weight alone.

This technique does not mean that the cart will track perfectly, but at least you will know that the inherent resonance frequencies will be in the correct range.

Wayner

[Toni Rambold]

Dear Mr. Wayner,

for a tone arm/cartridge combination the resonance frequency f is given by the following formula:

 f = 1/(2π√((ms+mt)c))

c is the compliance and ms denotes the weight of the cartridge and mt the effective mass of the tone arm.

The data for the Grado cartridges can be found on their website: gradolabs.com.

For the whole Prestige Series the system weight is specified ms = 5,5 gram and the compliance c = 20x10^-6 cm/dyne.

The ideal resonance frequency should be around 10 Hz.

So if you convert the formula and calculate the “ideal” effective mass of the tone arm should be around mt = 7,2 gram.


Regards Toni

[guest1632]

Dear Mr. Wayner,

for a tone arm/cartridge combination the resonance frequency f is given by the following formula:

 f = 1/(2π√((ms+mt)c))

c is the compliance and ms denotes the weight of the cartridge and mt the effective mass of the tone arm.

The data for the Grado cartridges can be found on their website: gradolabs.com.

For the whole Prestige Series the system weight is specified ms = 5,5 gram and the compliance c = 20x10^-6 cm/dyne.

The ideal resonance frequency should be around 10 Hz.

So if you convert the formula and calculate the “ideal” effective mass of the tone arm should be around mt = 7,2 gram.


Regards Toni

Hi Toni,

If I understood the specs correctly, with the longhorn mod added, that added 2 to 2.5 grams cartridge weight to the equation. So won't that make a difference as to the arm freq. and ideal weight?

Ray bronk

[Wayner]

Dear Mr. Toni,

My information is given to accommodate many arms, not the ideal perfect arm, and certainly there is a range of arms that are compatible. I am aware of the formula, and my comments were to remind people that there is an acceptable range of tonearms that will work with the Grado Prestige series.

Your quoted mass of a tonearm at 7.2 grams is almost non-existent, by many TT/arm manufacturers and not really a true reflection of real world tonearm weights. I have had many other tonearms that function quite well with higher mass. In fact the rating of 20 is almost ideal for many modern day tonearms.

Wayner

[Wayner]

Ray,

I have weighed a "bare" Grado cartridge and it is not 5.5 grams, it is in fact 6 grams. With the added "Longhorn", it changes the weight to 7.5 grams, as I stated in my previous post. If Grado were to match it's cartridges to the "perfect tonearm", as with any other cartridge manufacturer, we wouldn't be listening to vinyl, as no-one would have the "Utopian" resonance frequency.

Wayner

[Wayner]

Hey Toni,

If you own a Grado cartridge, you will find that the specification weight is also at 6  grams.

Cheers.

Wayner

[guest1632]

Ray,

I have weighed a "bare" Grado cartridge and it is not 5.5 grams, it is in fact 6 grams. With the added "Longhorn", it changes the weight to 7.5 grams, as I stated in my previous post. If Grado were to match it's cartridges to the "perfect tonearm", as with any other cartridge manufacturer, we wouldn't be listening to vinyl, as no-one would have the "Utopian" resonance frequency.

Wayner

Hi Wayner,

Well, I was only going by what I have read here. i have heard Grado cartridges in the past, like 20 some odd yerars ago, and felt they were quite musical then.

I harken back to the Grace 707, the Connasseur tables and arms, the Audio Technika, the V-shaped Arm with the piece hanging from the bottom that sat in some goo. I also remember the Saec, which I owned, and it got a lot of awards from the Japanese press. Then there was the Black widow arm, great in its day. I've owned a Lynn Etok.

I sure wish the air bearing arms weren't so damn expensive. Didn't Grado even make an arm at one time?

Oh well, so much for the reminiscing. I don't know really what is out there now that is good or bad. I remember the mod on the Thorns arms to dampen them by putting heatshrink tubing on the shaft of the arm. Simple tweak. I've had my share of Duals, Phillips and thorns tables.

So, ... maybe what is needed here is a perhaps short list of compatible arms that would work well with the Grados.

Ray Bronk