LONGHORN GOLD1 AND GREEN1 CARTRIDGES NOW AVAILABLE!

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baldrick

Re: GRADO GOLD1 AND GREEN1 LONGHORN CARTRIDGES NOW AVAILABLE!
« Reply #40 on: 11 Feb 2010, 07:53 pm »
Perhaps not, but according to your formula and Grado's current published numbers the calculated value is 10.5K.

If the cartridge is insensitive to loading changes all the better, but for those that like to tweak this is a 50 cent tweak that might actually make a positive difference.  More of a difference I'd wager, than a $200 power cord.

Wayner

Re: GRADO GOLD1 AND GREEN1 LONGHORN CARTRIDGES NOW AVAILABLE!
« Reply #41 on: 11 Feb 2010, 07:54 pm »
The first production Grado Green1 Longhorn is done!

 

 

I'm playing Andreas Vollenweider at rather loud volume, tracking at a scant over 1.5 grams..maybe 1.6.

Piano walked right thru, nice sound stage, and If some one is referring to the bass of the cartridge as "dark", well it has bass. Very well balanced.

I will listen for a few more minutes, then to be packaged up to head to our first customer.

Thank you for the order!

Wayner  :D

rlee8394

Re: GRADO GOLD1 AND GREEN1 LONGHORN CARTRIDGES NOW AVAILABLE!
« Reply #42 on: 11 Feb 2010, 08:38 pm »
It would seem like to variable outside of the cartridge itself would the phono lead capacitance itself. For example, the lower Harman Kardon line has a fixed capacitance of 160pF. Their higher line turntables has a capacitance trim function in 100/200/300 pF settings. This may affect the proper load resistance. It can't hurt to tweak the performance for those who  wish to do so. After all, this is a hobby.

To that end, I have created a MathCad-like worksheet using OpenOffice.Org Writer program with the CompPad extension. Get OpenOffice here:

http://download.openoffice.org/

Get the CompPad extension here:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/comppad/files/

I chose OpenOffice because it is cross-platform. It runs on Windows, Linux, Solaris, Mac OS X, etc. I actually created the worksheet on an Intel iMac OS X 10.6.2 (Snow Leopard). If anyone is interested, I can send you the worksheet. I'm not sure if there is a way to send attachments or place the worksheet somewhere on the forum. If anyone has any suggestions on this, let me know.

Thanks,
Ron

el34

Re: GRADO GOLD1 AND GREEN1 LONGHORN CARTRIDGES NOW AVAILABLE!
« Reply #43 on: 11 Feb 2010, 09:42 pm »
The picture answers my longhorn/technics compatibility question!

rcag_ils

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Re: GRADO GOLD1 AND GREEN1 LONGHORN CARTRIDGES NOW AVAILABLE!
« Reply #44 on: 12 Feb 2010, 12:52 am »
According to the picture above, if the Grado cartridge is the man walking the high wire with a long pole, then he's holding the pole with his feet.

Shouldn't the longhorn have been mounted in the middle of the cartridge body instead of way down there in front of the stylus? I thought I've seen picture that shows the bar mounted in the middle of the body, it was how it shown in Audio Basics, mounted in the middle. Wouldn't the cartridge create more micro twist when mounted at the bottom?

I like the Longhorn idea, just curious about the changes been made since the Audio Basics.

10ear

Re: GRADO GOLD1 AND GREEN1 LONGHORN CARTRIDGES NOW AVAILABLE!
« Reply #45 on: 12 Feb 2010, 01:11 am »
Not to hopefully change subject or hijack thread, Wayner would you be able/want to replace stylus on older Longhorns Frank did awhile ago. Have two which probably need some TLC from you....

Thanks from ole 10ear

10ear

Re: GRADO GOLD1 AND GREEN1 LONGHORN CARTRIDGES NOW AVAILABLE!
« Reply #46 on: 12 Feb 2010, 01:14 am »
Seems I left a "not" out of my previous post......

10ear

Tom Alverson

Re: GRADO GOLD1 AND GREEN1 LONGHORN CARTRIDGES NOW AVAILABLE!
« Reply #47 on: 12 Feb 2010, 01:20 am »
Shouldn't the longhorn have been mounted in the middle of the cartridge body instead of way down there in front of the stylus? I thought I've seen picture that shows the bar mounted in the middle of the body, it was how it shown in Audio Basics, mounted in the middle. Wouldn't the cartridge create more micro twist when mounted at the bottom?

I like the Longhorn idea, just curious about the changes been made since the Audio Basics.

I would think it would work the best closer to they stylus (where it is in the picture).  The olders one were mounted a little higher than that maybe to clear the record clamps that were all the rage back then.

rlee8394

Re: GRADO GOLD1 AND GREEN1 LONGHORN CARTRIDGES NOW AVAILABLE!
« Reply #48 on: 12 Feb 2010, 04:25 am »
Quote
According to the picture above, if the Grado cartridge is the man walking the high wire with a long pole, then he's holding the pole with his feet.

Yes, that would create the lowest center of gravity. If a tightrope walker could walk that way, he would. You never see them holding the balance bar extended over their head do you?

Ron

ArthurDent

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Re: GRADO GOLD1 AND GREEN1 LONGHORN CARTRIDGES NOW AVAILABLE!
« Reply #49 on: 12 Feb 2010, 09:15 am »
Nice work Wayner   :thumb:

Rocket

Re: GRADO GOLD1 AND GREEN1 LONGHORN CARTRIDGES NOW AVAILABLE!
« Reply #50 on: 12 Feb 2010, 10:44 am »
Hi,

There was so much encouragement and positive comments made to Wayner and now all I read about are negative comments.  The bottom line is that if you think you can purchase a product that is better then go for it.

I need to purchase a cartridge in the next few months and I was considering a denon dl103 and I'm wondering how a modified longhorn would sound in comparison?

Thanks

Rod

rcag_ils

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Re: GRADO GOLD1 AND GREEN1 LONGHORN CARTRIDGES NOW AVAILABLE!
« Reply #51 on: 12 Feb 2010, 11:01 am »
The tightrope walker would hold the pole right in the middle. As far as the cartridge goes, I think it's done for cosmetic reason, to preserve the Grado logo.

martyo

Re: GRADO GOLD1 AND GREEN1 LONGHORN CARTRIDGES NOW AVAILABLE!
« Reply #52 on: 12 Feb 2010, 11:09 am »
I stopped reading this thread for awhile for obvious reasons, but it appears it is still at the circus.  :lol: 

Nice going Wayne, great you were able to "preserve the Grado logo.   :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

SERIOUSLY, very nice, good luck, and someone is going to be really enjoying their vinyl soon...

Wayner

Re: GRADO GOLD1 AND GREEN1 LONGHORN CARTRIDGES NOW AVAILABLE!
« Reply #53 on: 12 Feb 2010, 12:50 pm »
Not to hopefully change subject or hijack thread, Wayner would you be able/want to replace stylus on older Longhorns Frank did awhile ago. Have two which probably need some TLC from you....

Thanks from ole 10ear

Call Frank. We'll fix them up for you.

Wayner

Wayner

Re: GRADO GOLD1 AND GREEN1 LONGHORN CARTRIDGES NOW AVAILABLE!
« Reply #54 on: 12 Feb 2010, 12:55 pm »
The tightrope walker would hold the pole right in the middle. As far as the cartridge goes, I think it's done for cosmetic reason, to preserve the Grado logo.

The only reason the Grado name shows is that they have changed their tooling and the Longhorn bar sits lower (to our advantage). Make a T shaped piece and try to balance that on a string. Now make a - shaped piece and balance that on a string. No comparison.

Wayner

baldrick

Re: GRADO GOLD1 AND GREEN1 LONGHORN CARTRIDGES NOW AVAILABLE!
« Reply #55 on: 12 Feb 2010, 01:34 pm »
I need to purchase a cartridge in the next few months and I was considering a denon dl103 and I'm wondering how a modified longhorn would sound in comparison?

The DL103 is a mighty fine cartridge.  The Longhorn modification might work very well for that particular cartridge too.I'm willing to bet that the Grado Gold might sound every bit as good as a stock DL103.


jrtrent

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Re: GRADO GOLD1 AND GREEN1 LONGHORN CARTRIDGES NOW AVAILABLE!
« Reply #56 on: 12 Feb 2010, 02:03 pm »
SERIOUSLY, very nice, good luck, and someone is going to be really enjoying their vinyl soon...

I have limited experience with Grado in that I've only tried three of their models (Green, Blue, and Statement Platinum) and in only two different turntables (LP12 and WTRP).  Though I liked the sound of a Green in my LP12/Ittok, tracking was never the best, even at the maximum recommended tracking force.  Chamber music was usually fine, but orchestral crescendos, especially as the tonearm got nearer the center of the record, were problematic.  The same Green in the damped arm of my WTRP tracked great, handling everything I threw at it at 1.5 grams.  My biggest hope for the Longhorn modification is that I will experience the same thing Underground Sound experienced (as mentioned in the Audio Basics article), the curing of mistracking problems in my undamped Ittok arm.  If it also improves the Green's already very good dynamic contrasts and imaging stability, it will be an amazing listening experience, indeed.

As usual, very impressive customer service from AVA.  I called the order in before work yesterday and had an e-mail saying my cartridge was ready to go by the time I got home.  Not knowing whether they'd have to order in a cartridge or what Wayner's other existing obligations were, I would not have been surprised or disappointed at a wait measured in weeks; this fast service is a happy bonus.

charmerci

Re: GRADO GOLD1 AND GREEN1 LONGHORN CARTRIDGES NOW AVAILABLE!
« Reply #57 on: 12 Feb 2010, 02:56 pm »
The way that I figure it, is that the source of the vibration is the stylus arm going back and forth - so you want to stop that vibration as soon as possible, i.e. as close to the stylus as possible, before it starts the rest of the arm into motion.

avahifi

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Re: GRADO GOLD1 AND GREEN1 LONGHORN CARTRIDGES NOW AVAILABLE!
« Reply #58 on: 12 Feb 2010, 03:35 pm »
The formatting error in our 1982 Audio Basics back issue set that talks about the math of cartridge loading and information about the original Longhorn Grado has now been corrected.

The download is at:  http://www.avahifi.com/root/audio_basics/index.htm

Download the 1982 Audio Basics back issue set.  There is lots of other good stuff for your information in that issue too that is still absolutely current.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine


Brett Buck

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Re: GRADO GOLD1 AND GREEN1 LONGHORN CARTRIDGES NOW AVAILABLE!
« Reply #59 on: 12 Feb 2010, 06:31 pm »
The way that I figure it, is that the source of the vibration is the stylus arm going back and forth - so you want to stop that vibration as soon as possible, i.e. as close to the stylus as possible, before it starts the rest of the arm into motion.

   If I understand your explanation, that's not what it's there for. The purpose is to increase the moment of inertia of the assembly of arm/cartridge so it has less propensity to rotate about its long axis. I would have to do some sketches but you might be right that lower it better. My gut feeling was that you want it right on the "flex axis" of the tonearm, which would be quite high, but that might not be the case (due to the parallel axis theorem).

    Of course, making it longer helps a lot more (moment of inertia goes up with the square of the length, more or less). There's a point of diminishing returns, of course, and at some point it becomes too heavy.  At least that's what my buddies and I found back when the Frank first described the longhorn modification. We made them of varying lengths and tack-glued them on (rigidly, but with 5-minute epoxy so we could get them off with a little heat). The overall performance was much better with the original short version, noticeably better still with it 50% longer, a little bit better with it twice as long, and then after that it didn't improve to the point we could notice. There were practical issues with it that long, too - the record wouldn't clear it when the tonearm was on the rest. It would just miss the spindle, but that wasn't much of a problem because you could bend it to provide clearance. As usual, we concluded that for a completely general application with no knowledge of the turntable, etc, that Frank's size was probably the best compromise between performance improvement and practicality. But for specific situations, you could get a bit more improvement if you made it as long as you could without running into something.

   This was all using the original K&S 1/8" U-channel as the arm. It's clear to me that you could to a lot better as far as ratio of moment of inertia VS weight goes using something like carbon fiber thin-wall tube with something very dense like tantalum at the ends (and packed with clay for damping). Of course, you have to have both the tubes and the tantalum, which makes it, once again, impractical. I might dig out all that stuff and try it again, since it's now a topic of interest.

    The *other* mods are at least as important, by the way.

     Brett