[stump4545]

can someone please explain to me the phase toggle on the 36.5?

i honestly am not sure what it does since i am still new.

does it really come in handy or is it like a set it and forget it feature?

thanks for the help

[ted_b]

It reverses absolute phase, (which is helpful to some who are sensitive to phase in recordings; it's especially manifested in woofer cones going out when they should be moving in).  Some theorize that absolute phase is so prevalent in multitracked recordings (one mic reversed, one compressor reversed again), yadayada, that it's meaningless for any recordings other than those minimally mic'd ones.  I was one of the beta testers/developers that asked Dan to put a phase switch on the 36.5 and I honestly use it very very seldom.  But it does help in certain recordings.  Some people even label their recordings as + or -.

Absolute phase is NOT to be confused with "out of phase".  OOP is when you have one of you speaker red/black leads reversed at the amp or speaker end, and mono and/or center fill sounds are no longer spot on, but instead cloudy and coming from no specific spot.  It (OOP) is a problem that has an easy solution, reverse one lead, one time. 

[stump4545]

which position should i leave the phase toggle switch if i'm not that picky or perceptive enough to hear the difference?

up or down?

thanks for the help

[rollo]

which position should i leave the phase toggle switch if i'm not that picky or perceptive enough to hear the difference?

up or down?

thanks for the help

   If you cannot tell the difference then at least try the two positions to hear which is louder. Stick with that one. The correct phase will have a deeper bass and less strident highs. Or if you acess to the Sheffield/XLO test CD use tracks 2 and 3 to determine in and out of phae signals.
  If not I believe the Alan Maher site has this usefull track to copy to CD.


charles

[ted_b]

Charles,
Wrong.  Do not perpetuate the out-of-phase misnomer.  This switch is not about XLO's out of phase tests.  That's mis-wiring your speakers, as noted above.  This is about ABSOLUTE phase (0 degrees or 180 degrees).

[rollo]

Charles,
Wrong.  Do not perpetuate the out-of-phase misnomer.  This switch is not about XLO's out of phase tests.  That's mis-wiring your speakers, as noted above.  This is about ABSOLUTE phase (0 degrees or 180 degrees).

 Wrong, yes and no. I am very sensitive to correct absolute phase, it is no misnomer. Although some cannot tell its not an insult but a fact of life. I cannot listen without one.  I am not alone with this. I will stand corrected about the difference between the Disc and switch.  Sorry if I did not explain it in more detail what I was trying to convey.
  I have found that the odd numberd selections are out of phase and the even numbered ones in phase on most CDs. Some LPs have the bass out of phase as well. In phase is bettered focused , louder and more natural top end.
  This is my experience which I hope we can learn from or at least try. Nothing to lose. No arguement just my experience. I guess we agree just did not convey my message properly.


charles

[James Romeyn]

A second variable in the audibility of absolute phase is the speaker design.  Audibility is proportional to the degree to which the speaker is phase coherent.  For example, if/when one driver's polarity is inverted relative to another driver, absolute phase is less audible vs. a speaker having all drivers in phase (all other things being equal, never the case of course).

Some costly non-polarized caps are marked for output (+) in-circuit, sounding better in this orientation vs. the other.  I've auditioned high quality unmarked caps and marked them, then retested the same cap blind and was satisfied to consistently prefer the same orientation.

If above is an accurate indicator, one may surmise that a phase-coherent speaker with properly oriented capacitors may provide maximum audibility of absolute phase.

I certainly applaud Dan for the phase feature, and loved the preamp when it arrived at 2008 T.H.E. Show Las Vegas.  The feature is one of the advantages provided by a transformer output coupled tube preamp. Inverting line-level phase requires an extra gain stage unless it is performed by a transformer or a balanced output coupled to a single-ended input (e.g. select pin 2 or pin 3 of XLR balanced output for single-ended phono plug input).  An additional gain stage distorts the audibility of absolute phase tests. 

I don't know how "clean" is a phase switch in the digital domain. 

[ted_b]

Wrong, yes and no. I am very sensitive to correct absolute phase, it is no misnomer. Although some cannot tell its not an insult but a fact of life. I cannot listen without one.  I am not alone with this. I will stand corrected about the difference between the Disc and switch.  Sorry if I did not explain it in more detail what I was trying to convey.
  I have found that the odd numberd selections are out of phase and the even numbered ones in phase on most CDs. Some LPs have the bass out of phase as well. In phase is bettered focused , louder and more natural top end.
  This is my experience which I hope we can learn from or at least try. Nothing to lose. No arguement just my experience. I guess we agree just did not convey my message properly.


charles

Charles,
This thread is not about "out of phase" (OOP).  You keep saying OOP.  It's just not correct.  The true out of phase signals in the XLO disc are for speaker lead (red/black) issues and are not 180 degrees!