[sfox7076]

My wife and I are about to sign a contract to buy an apartment in Brooklyn. I will have two rooms to listen in!  One 12 x 11 office (with 11 foot ceilings) and the living room.  First the office:

OK, so I need speakers.  I have the source components and the Amp.  However, my wife wants bookshelves.  I love Salk speakers.  What have people used in a similar space bookshelf wise, HT1s?  How do they sound without a sub?

Next, the living room Salk setup:

As many know, I have SongTower RTs with SongSurrounds, a SongCenter and a Rythmik/Salk 15" sub.   The floorplan of the living room/dining room/kitchen is a bit odd.  The room is hockey stick shaped and has 11' ceilings.  The living area is the top of the stick, the dining area at the bottom, and the kitchen like the blade of the stick.  The living room is essentially a 14' x 14' square, the dining area is 10' x14' and kitchen the 10' x 12'.  My speakers will be in the 14' x a 14' section on the left wall, facing the right wall 12' or so feet away.  From the speakers pov, the left side will be a wall of 3' followed by 8' of windows.  To the right will be the expense of the dining/kitchen area.  Straight ahead will be the living room furniture and a 35' hallway that is about 10' deep to a wall.  OK.  So that's the layout.  Now the issues:

Huge ceilings height.  Will the STs be enough?  I am sure they will, especially with the 15" Rythmik to fill in.  There will be plenty of power as they are powered by an AVA 550. 

Now speaker cables/sub cable:

It is a new apartment, but it is already built, so there is no in wall access to run speaker cables.  I would have loved to run in wall cables to the rear channels, but instead I think I will be stuck with the baseboard method (unless I spend what is sure to be $3,000 to run the cables through the walls).  Anyway, I want to put the wires under the baseboard.   Anyone have any opinions on the speaker cable gauge or manufacturer for this scenario.  The long run will be about 50' all the way around (including 4-5' on each side for getting to the speaker).  My first thought is always monoprice, but I want to put this wire in and never think about it again.  Having never used their in wall stuff, I wondered if anyone here had thoughts.

Shawn 

[R Swerdlow]

OK, so I need speakers.  I have the source components and the Amp.  However, my wife wants bookshelves.  I love Salk speakers.  What have people used in a similar space bookshelf wise, HT1s?  How do they sound without a sub?

Congrats on the new place!  What amp (and how much power) will you be using in the new system?  If you now have the Song Surrounds you should listen to them separately and see if they satisfy.

You can choose between 3 Salk bookshelf models.  All of them share a family resemblance in sound but not in price:

Song Surround - CA15 paper woofer plus OWI dome tweeter

Ellis 1801         - W18 magnesium woofer plus OWI dome tweeter

HT1                - W18 magnesium woofer plus G2 ribbon tweeter

I use a very similar cousin to the Song Surround, the CAOW1 in a large bedroom, driven by a 100 wpc amp.  It easily fills the room with sound and sounds quite similar to my STs but with less bass.

For what it's worth, all of these bookshelf models are or may soon be available as single-woofer floor-standing transmission line designs.  Ask Jim for details.  Because they aren't as large as the MTM versions, they might also fit your room.

Next, the living room Salk setup:
Huge ceilings height.  Will the STs be enough?  I am sure they will, especially with the 15" Rythmik to fill in.  There will be plenty of power as they are powered by an AVA 550.

Yes what you now have should easily work in room of that size.

Now speaker cables/sub cable:

It is a new apartment, but it is already built, so there is no in wall access to run speaker cables.  I would have loved to run in wall cables to the rear channels, but instead I think I will be stuck with the baseboard method (unless I spend what is sure to be $3,000 to run the cables through the walls).  Anyway, I want to put the wires under the baseboard.   Anyone have any opinions on the speaker cable gauge or manufacturer for this scenario.  The long run will be about 50' all the way around (including 4-5' on each side for getting to the speaker).  My first thought is always monoprice, but I want to put this wire in and never think about it again.  Having never used their in wall stuff, I wondered if anyone here had thoughts.

Use the monoprice stuff and never worry about it again.  If 12 gauge in-wall speaker cable is too big for under the baseboard, go with 14 gauge.  What amp are you using for your rear channels?

[sfox7076]

I have an AVA Ultimate 70 for the office and an Insight 240/3 for the center/surrounds.

Shawn

[R Swerdlow]

Shawn

The Ultimate 70 should be excellent with any of those bookshelf speakers.  I've heard one of those driving STs and it was very nice.  It should be great with what ever you choose.  Have fun.

I mentioned using my CAOW1s in a large bedroom.  I don't remember the dimensions but it is much larger than your 11 x 12 office.  As a guess, it is at least 15 x 22 with a 9 foot ceiling.  I use no subwoofer in that room.

[mshan]

Unfamiliar with your speakers, but manual for my Hsu HB-1 mk. 2 recommends:  16G up to 10 ft, 14G 10 - 25 ft, and 12G for 26 - 50 ft.

Don't know if those are general recommendations, or specific for his speakers.

Someone on another forum mentioned Audioquest FLX-14/2 as really good speaker cable.  I bought a 20 ft. length from NHT Hi Fi Store (they charge per foot and shipping was about $10:  http://www.nhthifi.com/Audioquest-FLX-14-2-Bulk-Speaker-Cable-per-foot), but getting a full spool makes per foot price much better.  Still breaking it, but sounds very good (clear is what comes to mind).

I have tons of experience with many different brands of in wall speaker wire and I'll give you a brief review of my top favorite companies.

My top in wall wire for sound quality , actually I have 2 but Audioquest 14-2 is overall fantastic wire. In wall use and external use. Clear , detail , bass , mid's , highs all sound the way they are suppose to. I don't think this speaker wire adds or takes anything. I think it does it's job. Most of the time I feel there is no reason to buy anything else.

Liberty also makes incredible in wall wire. They have a THX series thats as good as the Audioquest. You can argue it's just as good . They also have a 12g version that I would feel good using on any speakers made.

Kimber Kwick series is another one of those cables that just perform. You can't go wrong with Kimber Kable for any wire need. Every single cable they make is top notch and can compete with anything made.

If I had to choose a wire to use forever I might just stick with Audioquest or Kimber but if someone told me I had to choose Liberty I could live with that choice and never feel the need for anything else. When you achieve correct signal transfer , you don't need magic boxes or fancy braiding to make it better. There is no need to overspend on wire. I know this as I have over spent on wire all of my audio life. I learned the hard way and found companies that do it right for a great price. All 3 companies don't silly over charge you for what you get. Sure if you buy there highest offerings , you can question why you are doing so. Like Audioquest there entry level speaker wire isn't far off there top of the line. When you listen , you will learn that once you achieve the goal , your done.  http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90220

[ctouhey]

[snip] Now speaker cables/sub cable:

It is a new apartment, but it is already built, so there is no in wall access to run speaker cables.  I would have loved to run in wall cables to the rear channels, but instead I think I will be stuck with the baseboard method (unless I spend what is sure to be $3,000 to run the cables through the walls).  Anyway, I want to put the wires under the baseboard.   Anyone have any opinions on the speaker cable gauge or manufacturer for this scenario.  The long run will be about 50' all the way around (including 4-5' on each side for getting to the speaker).  My first thought is always monoprice, but I want to put this wire in and never think about it again.  Having never used their in wall stuff, I wondered if anyone here had thoughts.

Shawn

Last month I had the rears mounted.  I am in an older home due to various reasons the wires had to be run behind the baseboard (for one side) and under the hardwood floor (other side).  I had a contractor friend of mine do the work – I had a small roof leak and sheetrock work to fix anyway.

He only charged me just under $300 for the speaker runs, and you can’t see a wire anywhere.  They did have to repaint after reinstalling the baseboard and quarter rounds.  (I had paint left over from the remodel they had done a couple years ago.)

Not knowing in advance what would be required, I purchased two 75 foot runs of Blue Jean Cable 12 White with bananas at one end for the amp and unterminated at the other (http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm).  The guys cut off at least a third during installation, so the runs are a little less than 50 feet.

Everything looks and sounds great.  Good luck!

Chris

[rollo]

  JPS in wall wiring should be a consideration as well. Occam reccomended Jena duplexs. Alan Maher CBFs at the panel and inside the outlet boxes will tie it all together. My 2 cents.


charles

[Occam]

Shaun,

Welcome to Brooklyn, where the weak are killed and eaten.   Given your ceiling height, I assume you're either in a old brownstone or loft.Whereabouts? My suggestion would be to simply install your system, adjust to it, and see where you might want improve or rearrange it. To get you started for your rear speakers, go with something inexpensive like those previously suggested, or possibly Canare 4S11 which you can get at a local Sam Ash or B&H Photo. Given the length, you'd want something with relatively low capacitance.
As a housewarming gift, you're welcome to some specification grade outlets HBL5262, which will be a significant upgrade to the crap that will inevitably be in your walls.

Again, Welcome to Brooklyn!
-Paul

[sfox7076]

Having lived in Spanish Harlem for some time, I think I can handle myself.  The building is actually a new construction.  I am happy about that after living in a pre-war with the worst wiring in history (used to watch the voltage drop by more than 10% every warm day in the summer).  So I am not sure the wiring is all that bad, though I haven't looked at it.  So it seems that it is either Monoprice, Canare or Belden.  Anyone have a good source for the Canare or Belden?  It will cost 3-4x the Monoprice where I have located it, so I am likely to go monoprice.  I know Frank Van Alstine would agree with that choice, but I would love to hear from someone who has used that.

Shawn

[floresjc]

I've bought bulk Belden wire from Blue Jeans Cable. Of course you can have them terminate it as well if you'd like. I bought 400ft of 12 gauge from them and ran a good chunk of that through my walls and it works great with their locking banana plugs.

[oneinthepipe]

bswusa.com has good prices on Belden cable.

http://bswusa.com/proditem.asp?item=5000UE-50

[sfox7076]

How is the 990 working out?  How did you terminate the wires in the walls?  Did you use wall plates or bare wire?  Was it done when they were roughing the place in or later?  I know, so many questions.  My wires were not run at construction, so this will be all done after.  Basically, I think that means baseboard method.  Also, I hopefully can get it done before we have the place painted.  Sigh...

[floresjc]

I used keystone wallplates which accept a whole host of different types of inserts from CAT5 to speaker banana receptacles. Basically, I bought the banana receptacles, which accept banana plugs on the outside, and the backside (inside the wall) will also accept bananas or bare wire. So basically I plug my speakers right into the wall.

For the fronts, my TV is mounted on the wall which is one side of my steps going down into the basement. Underneath those steps is a quite large closet/room which has my cable modem/network gear, heater, water heater, and the backside is just studs so I can get to the drywall easy. The basement has drop ceiling so i basically sent speaker wire over the roof joists and ran it to the outside wall of my house (which has the rears). When I got to the intersection of the drop ceiling and the outside wall, I used a fish tape to send the wires down to the jack, which was quite tricky with insulation. In the end though, completely worth it.

The 990 is excellent. It performs as new, and I never have a lockup like I did occassionally with the 1070.  I actually have RCA pass through behind it, so I take the 5.1 pre outs and feed them through to my understairs room, which is where all my amps sit. I take the .1 into the closet as well, and it comes out right next to the sub via a wall jack.  Really nice setup.