[dflee]

I hear systems or read about gear and the word WARM pops up more and more. I mean give me a break! There is soft sounding and ear splitting music with everything in between. But what they all have in common is depth of sound. I've had the word thrown out there when in reality to me the sound was dull. Even the softest music, like the female voice (which is close miked) is very dynamic or acoustic guitar when done right has great depth and detail. Give me a system that makes even the softest of music excite me or energize me any day over something that puts me to sleep with it's warmth. When I hear this word the first thing I think of is muddled. Analogy wise it's kinda like the song "The Sound of Silence". Guess what- there ain't no such thing.
What do ya'll have to say about this?

Thanks As Always
Don

[woodsyi]

It's good in winter; bad in summer?

I agree depth, layered, phat, robust, etc. are better then warm but I think it is used in opposition to cold and sterile and it makes sense in that context.

[turkey]

Even the softest music, like the female voice (which is close miked) is very dynamic or acoustic guitar when done right has great depth and detail.

I have found that recordings of things like the female voice and acoustic guitar are actually fairly easy for a system to reproduce well. I always hear this type of recording being used by audio dealers and manufacturers to promote their gear at stores and shows, and highly suspect it's for just that reason.

Take the same system and throw on a recording of a full orchestra and you find out that it all falls apart.

(As far as warmth goes, I would prefer a system that is neutral.)

[rollo]

Warm sound is a colored sound. OK Cool sound in a speaker is say a B&W. Warm is a Vandersteen. It is the character of sound described for lack of better words.. My take anyway.


charles

[rajacat]

If warm sound is supposed to be colored shouldn't cool sound be described as colored too? Sound should be nuetral (medium? ) so that it reflects the source. When I hear live acoustic music, say a string quartet, I wouldn't describe the sound as cool or warm but just natural.

-Roy

[BobRex]

If warm sound is supposed to be colored shouldn't cool sound be described as colored too? Sound should be nuetral (medium? ) so that it reflects the source. When I hear live acoustic music, say a string quartet, I wouldn't describe the sound as cool or warm but just natural.

-Roy

Actually, unless you listen to said quartet either at an extremely close distance or in an anechoic chamger, you will hear the effects of the hall or room in which you are listening.  Some halls are "warm" sounding, others aren't.  Warm typically refers to a slight increase in energy in the bass through mid-bass or a slight decrease in upper frequency energy.  Cool refers to the opposite.  So which hall is natural?

Every room has a sound of it's own, and that's one of the problems when describing any part of a system.  Very few people have ever heard a system sans room (like in an anechoic chamber), so who can really say if a system is neutral?

As far as calling a system with no highs and no real dynamics (which I think is what Don is getting at) warm is wrong.  That's not warm, that's soft - as in softening the impact of the music.  Remember that most recordings are mic'ed fairly close in order to capture as much high freq. energy as possible - think of how a drum set is mic'ed.  Such close recording is unnaturally bright for those who prefer the response as heard in an audience seat, to them, a "warm" system adds the necessary compensation to develop the illusion of "reality".

Neutrality can be a harsh mistress; many recordings aren't going to hold up to the scrutiny of such a system.  I sometimes wonder if those who claim to prefer neutrality just prefer the colorations of their system, not neutrality per se.

[rajacat]

What I meant is that a neutral system should just reproduce what is on the recording including the hall ambiance. If it is a warm hall then the sound system should reproduce that "warmness". If a system fails to reproduce that warmness then it is not neutral or just not sensitive enough to reproduce what is on the recording, warts and all. If the rig ignores hall ambiance then it might miss some of the detail in the music. Also the extraneous  details like breathing coughing, score page turning and fingers sliding over the frets of a guitar add to the illusion that you're listening to live music. However these details shouldn't be out of balance with their actual volume in the hall.   

Of course, all listening rooms are not the same. Same for ears. Perhaps all the tweaking with power cords, interconnects, tube rolling etc. is an effort to achieve a total system neutrality. 

Now if close mic'ing a drumset creates an unaturally sounding recording then that's the fault of the recording engineer. So what are we to do? Deliberately design a system that's inaccurate or not very sensitive so that the poor recording will sound good but the great recording will be short changed.?

-Roy

[BobM]

All this neutrality is starting to sound political 

I personally would prefer a system to tend more toward the warm side than the lean side. It's just easier and more fun to listen to and enjoy.

[bluemike]

All this neutrality is starting to sound political 

I personally would prefer a system to tend more toward the warm side than the lean side. It's just easier and more fun to listen to and enjoy.

I agree with you ...something in the middle is more like it 

[rajacat]

Neutral is not lean



-Roy

[gerald porzio]

Warm is the sound of 1 hand clapping.

[mcullinan]

Give me my meals warm, but never hot!

[Browntrout]

If we relate the word to human character then it becomes easy to understand how it corresponds to music. A warm person is welcoming, forgiving, understanding and easy to communicate with. (listening to music is actually a two way interaction)
 If a stereo is this then it is good to my mind. Although obviously in writing any word can be used for good or bad.
 If a stereo is 'not warm' (whatever word that is used to give the opposite) then it will to my mind be analytical in presentation which as with people of such nature very rarely reveal much aboput themselves and hide behind facts and logical argument. Not something I see as great for conveying emotion through music. The same words can be used to describe musicians. Great topic.

[*Scotty*]

Counterpoint, I would prefer to hear what was originally recorded with a minimum of editorial content from my stereo system. The warmth or lack of it should be a function what was present as original information in the recording. Real live acoustic music can be all over the place covering the entire spectrum, warm to cool, as you are well aware.
Scotty

[dflee]

The replies thus far are great.
In my original post I was trying to say that something as simple as the human voice or acoustic guitar can have a truly dynamic inflection when recorded and reproduced properly. While the sound can be deemed simple, why does it take a three hundred pound multi driver speaker with humongous wattage (or outrageously priced tube equipment) to get it right. I play (hack at) acoustic guitar and mandolin and have some idea about sound and when you catch the details on a cd without brightness, I Just feel it inside and it brings out the passion without the ho hum of warm sounding. I have probably hundreds of classical cds and get the same feeling when i hear the instruments without actually trying to hear any one particular. Now thats cool. Most times when listening to equipment be it in the retail store or other places, When I'm not feeling that passion is when I hear the dreaded word "warm".

Again thanks everyone and please continue

Don

[Nuance]

If warm sound is supposed to be colored shouldn't cool sound be described as colored too? Sound should be nuetral (medium? ) so that it reflects the source. When I hear live acoustic music, say a string quartet, I wouldn't describe the sound as cool or warm but just natural.

-Roy

Agreed.  When I hear the word "warmth" I immediately assume the person was hearing distortion.  Nothing should sound warm or cool, just "proper."

[BobM]

What I find ultimately unexplainable in this hobby is, if we are all shooting for reproduction that sounds real, then why does every damn system sound so damn different? One man's lean is another mans perfect. One man's slightly warm is another mans muddy. Even "reference quality" equipment sounds different from one another. Catering to personal taste or actually representing what the manufacturer feels is "right".

Dunno. Duntcare. 

The real answer is that each of those people probably think their system sounds "proper". And for them, they may very well be right.

[woodsyi]

The real answer is that each of those people probably think their system sounds "proper". And for them, they may very well be right.

Mine is prim and proper.

[BobM]

Nice to know that you keep it trimmed Woods, but probably more info than people here need to know.   

But how does your system sound?

[Nuance]

^ LOL!