Why So Many EL34 and KT88 amps??

FullRangeMan · « **on:** 26 Jan 2010, 08:11 pm »

Hi Folks,
My doubt is why there is thousands of amps with these popular tubes as EL34, 6550, KT88 etc and so little amps with bigs triodes or other tubes?
They have a better sound than the others big output tubes?? Iam bored by these pop tubes!!
Thanks for your opinions, Gustavo

Pez · « **Reply #1 on:** 27 Jan 2010, 12:59 am »

Can you be more specific as to what type of amp you are bored of? There are a lot of different types of amps that use these tubes to very different effect.

Any way EL34s and KT88 are very effective tubes with very good power capability for modern low effiency speakers that are not built with flea power in mind. Also some of us do not prefer fullrange, horns, or refridgerator sized speakers so 5 watts SET is out of the question.

Niteshade · « **Reply #2 on:** 27 Jan 2010, 01:35 am »

It is much more expensive to design an amplifier with RF tubes (813's, 845's, 211's, 572's etc...) than it is with the 6L6 family or EL84's. Their plate impedance is very high and the required B+ for a meaningful output is very,very high (800+ volts).

I'm certainly not against it, but there is 'less bang for the buck' due to all the expensive parts.

Note: When these tubes are used in push-pull configurations, tremendous power can be developed, enough to drive ANY speaker array and this is when the cost issue declines. It's still very expensive, but worth it. How about a 1KW amplifier with four tubes per side?

Got Maggie's? What a light load they would be!

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #3 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 01:29 am »

Thanks boys for the replys, these EL34/KT88 popular tubes have a boring look and the big tubes are so impressive and fancy looking.
Gustavo

baldrick · « **Reply #4 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 02:05 am »

I say blame the folks at Marshall, Fender, Mesa Boogie, etc.
I think that the only reason that many of the new production tubes still exist because of the guitar amp industry.
It's analagous to the hip-hop and DJ industry being responsible for keeping vinyl records in production (flame away for that comment...)
In any case you just listed the most popular tubes for guitar amps (plus some you didn't mention, like the EL84, 12AX7, 12AT7, 6SN7, etc)
Apart from what Nitshade said about being challenging to design amplifiers around transmitting tubes the guitar amp gang is ubiquitous.
If you want to challenge yourself why not build a push pull parallel amplifier around the 6C33C-B triode that is not output transformerless?

Pez · « **Reply #5 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 02:29 am »

Quote from: FULLRANGEMAN on 28 Jan 2010, 01:29 am

Thanks boys for the replys, these EL34/KT88 popular tubes have a boring look and the big tubes are so impressive and fancy looking.
Gustavo

oh my god is that your reason? I thought this was going to be a fruitful animated discussion about DHT vs IHT, SET vs OTL vs PP, 2A3 vs 845 tube variety. Instead you are concerned with looks??? Wow...

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #6 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 02:49 am »

Quote from: Pez on 28 Jan 2010, 02:29 am

oh my god is that your reason? I thought this was going to be a fruitful animated discussion about DHT vs IHT, SET vs OTL vs PP, 2A3 vs 845 tube variety. Instead you are concerned with looks??? Wow...

Sorry dissapoint you!
Why do you think appearence is not important? Your wife is a ugly woman? You could marry an ugly woman?
Certainly your wife is a beautiful woman!
I do not know the spec chart of the EL34/KT88 etc tubes, unless they are pentode, and I donot like this.

Also with a 845 tube I need use just two in parallel, and with EL34 is need use four or six to get the same power.
I look at EL34/6550/KT88 and see a Volks Bettle, while an 845 is a Corvette V8. Surely an tube amp with these popular tubes will no get my money.
But I was impressed by the KT66 sound in a guitar amp some years ago.
Regards, Gustavo

Pez · « **Reply #7 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 02:52 am »

If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life, never make a pretty woman your wife. So from my personal point of view, get an ugly girl to marry you.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #8 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 02:58 am »

From my personal experience, tubes are more reliable than women.
The women all annoy the same thing and cause the same problems and cost the same expenses(much).

Tyson · « **Reply #9 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 03:05 am »

I wanna be like Pez and marry a beautiful woman who happens to be a doctor, so I can "retire" before I'm thirty

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #10 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 03:20 am »

Quote from: baldrick on 28 Jan 2010, 02:05 am

I say blame the folks at Marshall, Fender, Mesa Boogie, etc.
I think that the only reason that many of the new production tubes still exist because of the guitar amp industry.
It's analagous to the hip-hop and DJ industry being responsible for keeping vinyl records in production (flame away for that comment...)
In any case you just listed the most popular tubes for guitar amps (plus some you didn't mention, like the EL84, 12AX7, 12AT7, 6SN7, etc)
Apart from what Nitshade said about being challenging to design amplifiers around transmitting tubes the guitar amp gang is ubiquitous.
If you want to challenge yourself why not build a push pull parallel amplifier around the 6C33C-B triode that is not output transformerless?

Here in my country the Mesa-Boogie guitar amps ara hated by the musicians for bad sound and unreliability, same for the 12AX7-Shuguang.

Surely I do not know built any tube amp, only made solder and take electric shock. I will ask a tube amp builder to made a custom amp.
About the 6C33: I hear say the 6C19 is better than the 6C33 for a power position(I wish to know what you all think about it??)

DaveC113 · « **Reply #11 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 04:44 am »

Quote from: FULLRANGEMAN on 28 Jan 2010, 02:58 am

From my personal experience, tubes are more reliable than women.
The women all annoy the same thing and cause the same problems and cost the same expenses(much).

There was an amp at RMAF this year, I don't remember the manufacturer, but they used transmitting tubes that were thousands of dollars for the pair. They were monoblock SET amps that made something like 100 WPC. They were driving Focal Polykevlar car speakers in small cabinets... nice drivers, but I have to wonder if the automotive x-over was hot-glued inside the cabs... It was a really good sounding amp.

GM-70 Tube Amp:

http://www.dehavillandhifi.com/GM70_2003.htm

Pez · « **Reply #12 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 04:50 am »

That would be Win Analog

SHV · « **Reply #13 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 04:58 am »

From my personal experience, tubes are more reliable than women.
*********
I agree...My 1960's MC275 has outlasted GFs and two wives. :>)

Steve

DaveC113 · « **Reply #14 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 05:05 am »

Quote from: Pez on 28 Jan 2010, 04:50 am

That would be Win Analog

Yes

Amazing amps, I'm not sure there's a comparable amp on the market. 135 WPC Class A SET...

Pez · « **Reply #15 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 05:51 am »

Or one that conjures more amazement and lust. The Win Analog guys were fantastic at the show. They called me after the show and wanted feedback on things that they can do to improve their room etc. I told them the only thing they needed was more fundamental bass as well as a larger room. They are working on a secret project that I'm at liberty to speak about, but it should be slightly closer to "affordability" for the mortal man.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #16 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 07:51 am »

Quote from: FULLRANGEMAN on 28 Jan 2010, 01:29 am

Thanks boys for the replys, these EL34/KT88 popular tubes have a boring look and the big tubes are so impressive and fancy looking.
Gustavo

Here's impressive....the Amber Wave Audio 304TL amplifier...

And....they do sound good...

Niteshade · « **Reply #17 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 10:23 am »

Convection cooled?

You wouldn't catch me doing that! Red plates an no cooling fan? Little air holes? Looks like a lizard aquarium!

I worked around RF tubes before AF tubes. This is not a good thing.

Quote from: Pez on 28 Jan 2010, 04:50 am

That would be Win Analog

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #18 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 01:11 pm »

Quote from: lonewolfny42 on 28 Jan 2010, 07:51 am

Here's impressive....the Amber Wave Audio 304TL amplifier...

And....they do sound good...

Hi,
The online store Jacmusic.com say the 304TH was used in the PinkFloyd stage tubes amps in the good times.
Gustavo

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #19 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 01:15 pm »

Quote from: Niteshade on 28 Jan 2010, 10:23 am

Convection cooled?

You wouldn't catch me doing that! Red plates an no cooling fan? Little air holes? Looks like a lizard aquarium!

I worked around RF tubes before AF tubes. This is not a good thing.

Hi NiteShade,
You post get my attention as Iam a new fan in tubes.
Please could you explain why RF tunes is not a good thing. IF need send me a PM.
Thanks, Gustavo