[d55124]

I picked up a Vision DAC about two weeks ago - perfectly happy with my previous Ultra DAC, but the upgrade bug always strikes hard in the cold MN winters.

I'm extremely impressed and happy with the Vision - the Ultra DAC was no slouch, and certainly one of the finer DACs available, but the Vision a step forward.  In audiophile terms, the Vision provides a wider, deeper, and higher soundstage, and blacker blacks with a bit more detail in the silent passages.  Notes just seem to bloom and sustain significantly longer.  Instruments appear with the right perspective - depth, bite, volume and space.  Vocals are focused, detailed and smooth.  Tonality is correct.

In laymans' terms, the Vision takes one leap forward to live music.  It's as though one was listening to an acoustic or locally amplified combo in a large gymnasium from afar and walking closer and closer to the the musicians.  As one walked closer the music becomes cleaner and more distinct as the room interferences lessen and individual instruments present themselves.  The Ultra put one maybe five yards away, the Vision right on stage, front & center - rubbing elbows with the talent - hearing every musical nuance.

If you are into Leonard Cohen, pick up the recent Live in London (2008) 2 disc set - you will be tranformed to the stage!

I can't imagine reproduced music - analog or digital -  getting any better - kudos Frank & team!!

[ArthurDent]

Thanks d55124, nice write-up. Will be looking forward to your impressons of the UltraValve. 

[satfrat]

So maybe the Ultra DAC would be preferred for someone who doesn't want to sit in the front row but would rather sit a little further back? This is my preference actually as my desire is to sit in the middle of a concert hall so I get the full depth of the room(sound stage). Still there's no denyin the Vision is quite a bit cheaper than the Ultra and that alone makes it mighty attractive. I've been hoping someone would have the upfront knowledge about both these DAC's, thanks for that.   
 
Cheers,
Robin

[srb]

According to Frank in his thread "Announcing the New AVA Vision DAC!!!"
 

The musical result is outstanding and surprising.  It sounds more musical than our best previous solid state, vacuum tube, and vacuum tube hybrid DAC designs!
 
It makes them all sound pale and flat in comparison.  We did not expect that. The Vision DAC is so amazingly musical, dynamic, transparent, and easy to listen to long term that we must sadly discontinue our current Ultra, Transcendence Eight, and Insight series DACs.
 
They can no longer stand up as the best we can do.

That kind of says it all.
 
Steve

[DSK]

According to Frank in his thread "Announcing the New AVA Vision DAC!!!"
 
That kind of says it all.
 
Steve

Actually, it says a lot to those of us who place a lot of weight in Frank's listening observations ... but .... as a standalone comment from the designer/manufacturer it certainly doesn't say it all, especially to members unfamiliar with Frank and his history. That's why it is great to hear from customers or others who have the opportunity to listen to the Vision DAC in their system.

d55124's post sounds promising but I must admit that, like Robin, I do not wish to hear a performance from an 'on stage' perspective. Perhaps (hopefully) he didn't mean this literally and simply meant that the level of inner detail is so good that it couldn't get any better even if you were onstage? Hopefully d55124 will offer some clarification. I too have been very happy with Frank's Ultra DAC and am watching the feedback on the Vision with interest. Being in Oz I can't audition it and am interested to see whether the Vision really does surpass the Ultra to everyone's ears, or it is a matter of different tastes will prefer one or the other.

[srb]

The musical result is outstanding and surprising.  It sounds more musical than our best previous solid state, vacuum tube, and vacuum tube hybrid DAC designs!
 
It makes them all sound pale and flat in comparison.  We did not expect that. The Vision DAC is so amazingly musical, dynamic, transparent, and easy to listen to long term that we must sadly discontinue our current Ultra, Transcendence Eight, and Insight series DACs.
 
They can no longer stand up as the best we can do.

Actually, it says a lot to those of us who place a lot of weight in Frank's listening observations ... but .... as a standalone comment from the designer/manufacturer it certainly doesn't say it all, especially to members unfamiliar with Frank and his history.

Whether or not someone is familiar with Frank and his history, it is somewhat significant for a manufacturer to stop production of two units that were selling for more than the price of the Vision, and declare the new, lower price one better.
 
Although it is certainly possible that some people may prefer the presentation of one of the discontinued units over the new Vision, I would personally let my decision be weighted by the designer's comments, who has spent more time than anyone comparing these 4 models and is intimately familiar with them.
 
I might consider Frank biased if he were comparing the Vision to another manufacturer's DAC, but this is not the case here.
 
But I will also keep an open mind to reviews by members who have an opportunity to compare the AVA DACs side by side.
 
Steve

[DSK]

Whether or not someone is familiar with Frank and his history, it is somewhat significant for a manufacturer to stop production of two units that were selling for more than the price of the Vision, and declare the new, lower price one better.

Yes it is.

Although it is certainly possible that some people may prefer the presentation of one of the discontinued units over the new Vision, I would personally let my decision be weighted by the designer's comments, who has spent more time than anyone comparing these 4 models and is intimately familiar with them.

Yes, based on the Ultra DAC, I too have great respect for Frank's design skills and listening preferences. I will be very surprised if his observations aren't reflected by most Vision buyers but, until they are, the risk (for me) is too great to slap my money down given that I can't audition one first.

[martyo]

Thanks d55124, I've also been waiting for an Ultra/Vision comparison.

On stage vs. 15th row center.
I've sometimes heard nearfield listeners describe their experience as up on the stage. That is not the best spot at a concert.

d55124's post sounds promising but I must admit that, like Robin, I do not wish to hear a performance from an 'on stage' perspective. Perhaps (hopefully) he didn't mean this literally and simply meant that the level of inner detail is so good that it couldn't get any better even if you were onstage?

I agree.

[d55124]

"On stage vs. 15th row center.
I've sometimes heard nearfield listeners describe their experience as up on the stage. That is not the best spot at a concert."


. . . . depends upon the venue, music and tastes.  I have had the opportunity to conduct a couple of orchestras over the years as well as a few choruses.  Front & center, facing the musicians , on stage - there is not a much better musical experience I could imagine.  Point source (or sources) in front, hall effects minimized but present on the reverb.

On the other hand, I also used to play in a 60s-70s rock band (before all the latest amplification/monitor/mixing techniques).  Here, there was probably no place on stage where the music was whole as what you heard depending highly on where you stood. 

Each his own . . .  my $$$$ is on the Vision after owning both.  (shameless plug - anyone want a good deal on an Ultra DAC?)

[Wayner]

I received my Vision DAC upgrade (in small chassis) on Tuesday. I will say that if a recording has lots of air around it, reverb, the recording seems to project actually backwards in depth. A recording with little or no air or reverb does tend to sound up close, but I think that is to be expected. I do agree with the other observations.

Wayner 

[rlee8394]

DSK,

the risk (for me) is too great to slap my money down given that I can't audition one first.

Yes, you can audition one in your own home. See this link:

http://www.avahifi.com/root/ordering_info/satisfaction_guarantee.htm

Ron

[avahifi]

The Vision DAC certainly does not give you an unwanted "in your face" or too close perspective.  It will simply play back what the microphones heard in space and time.  Bad microphone techniques may put you way too close to that Sax reed, but that was the fault of the recording engineers.  In a properly produced recording, the sound stage will be in true three dimensions with you in your favorite seat.

Even with bad recordings, the DAC will not make the "hot" high end grainy or unlistenable.  If the highs are way too loud, they will just play back way too loud, with no harshness or "edge" added.  Actually many CDs you though were bad will turn out to be pretty darn good, it was your previous electronics that were bad, not the CDs.

Enjoy, and yes we do have a 30 day satisfaction guarantee.  All it will cost you is shipping to try one for a month.

Best regards,

Frank Van Alstine

[DSK]

DSK,
Yes, you can audition one in your own home. See this link:

http://www.avahifi.com/root/ordering_info/satisfaction_guarantee.htm

Ron

I hadn't realised the satisfaction guarantee applied internationally (I'm in Oz) ... good to know ... though the 2 way shipping and customs/GST duties would run to several hundred dollars.