Audio by Van Alstine vs Wyred 4 Sound for HT2-TL's?

Sonix · « **on:** 21 Jan 2010, 12:47 am »

I am considering these two options to power the HT2-TLs and I was hoping for impressions from those who have heard both with the Salks.

I have been unable to find any comparisons through my research so far pitting these two head to head.

I would greatly appreciate any feedback from those who are in the know.

Thank You Very Much!

Regards,
Ken

kip_ · « **Reply #1 on:** 21 Jan 2010, 02:06 am »

Check these threads out for starters:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=58717.0
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=66489.0
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=69558.msg646417#msg646417

What kind of sound do you like? Detailed and analytical? Smooth and musical? Bright neutral warm...?

I have heard neither of these amps, but the general consensus is that the W4S amps have gobs of power, and are very neutral, but can sound "digital" and un-involving.

Sonix · « **Reply #2 on:** 21 Jan 2010, 02:25 am »

Quote from: kip_ on 21 Jan 2010, 02:06 am

Check these threads out for starters:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=58717.0
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=66489.0
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=69558.msg646417#msg646417

Hey Kip,

Thanks for the great threads. Makes for good reading.

Quote from: kip_ on 21 Jan 2010, 02:06 am

What kind of sound do you like? Detailed and analytical? Smooth and musical? Bright neutral warm...?

I have heard neither of these amps, but the general consensus is that the W4S amps have gobs of power, and are very neutral, but can sound "digital" and un-involving.

Well, can't really say for sure about flavors and colors in the sound. Guess my current set up with an Arcam receiver and Sierra-1's makes for a rather nuetral sound.

I would say I am after that "ticket to the performance" sound, as Frank so aptly describes.

Thank You Very Much!
-Ken

satfrat · « **Reply #3 on:** 21 Jan 2010, 02:27 am »

Quote from: kip_ on 21 Jan 2010, 02:06 am

Check these threads out for starters:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=58717.0
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=66489.0
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=69558.msg646417#msg646417

What kind of sound do you like? Detailed and analytical? Smooth and musical? Bright neutral warm...?

I have heard neither of these amps, but the general consensus is that the W4S amps have gobs of power, and are very neutral, but can sound "digital" and un-involving.

I heard the D-Sonic Magnum 2000 (made by W4S) last weekend on a set of HT-3 and I can state w/o a doubt that "digital" and "un-involving" was the farthest thing from my mind. Clarity, detailed, wide open sound stage were more the name of the game on this day. But it could have been the Insight Dac that had something to do with all this also.

I do know that the sound from this amp was much better than the Parasound that I had heard the last time I auditioned this system, but it also lacked the Insight Dac. I've yet to have the opportunity to audition anything else from AVA other than this 1 DAC but I walked away from this system last week highly impressed.

Cheers,
Robin

kip_ · « **Reply #4 on:** 21 Jan 2010, 02:34 am »

Sonix what is your budget? AVA has new tube designs in amps and preamps, the UltraValve and Avastar pre, as well as the new Vision dac/pre

I have heard nothing but good things about AVA

bzaggie · « **Reply #5 on:** 21 Jan 2010, 02:37 am »

I will start off by saying that i have yet to hear any AVA gear ( which I hope to change at akfest). But i do own the ht2-tl's and I use the wyred 4 sound mono's. I absolutely love the combination, It still amazes me every time I sit down and listen to them. The bass is deep and powerful, every thing seems nice and balanced, and there is a clarity that I have not really heard in other speakers. I hooked up the salks to my onkyo 805 one day to see how it would sound, and the receiver sounded flat and lacked the dynamics, so I immediately plugged back in the mono's. I truly believe that with either amplifier you would be happy, but I thought id give my 2 cents and say the wyred 4 sound amplifiers work very very well for me.

oneinthepipe · « **Reply #6 on:** 21 Jan 2010, 02:51 am »

Sonix:

The preamp will have just as much effect on the sound as the amplifier, in my limited experience. As Robin pointed out, the other components will influence the sound, and there needs to be a synergy between the components. What will you be using as a preamp?

Nuance · « **Reply #7 on:** 21 Jan 2010, 03:10 am »

Quote from: satfrat on 21 Jan 2010, 02:27 am

I heard the D-Sonic Magnum 2000 (made by W4S) last weekend on a set of HT-3 and I can state w/o a doubt that "digital" and "un-involving" was the farthest thing from my mind. Clarity, detailed, wide open sound stage were more the name of the game on this day. But it could have been the Insight Dac that had something to do with all this also. I do know that the sound from this amp was much better than the Parasound that I had heard the last time I auditioned this system, but it also lacked the Insight Dac. I've yet to have the opportunity to audition anything else from AVA other than this 1 DAC but I walked away from this system last week highly impressed.

Cheers,
Robin

This just re-affirms everything I've heard about the Insight DAC. If I hadn't gotten such a tasty price on my PS Audio I would have purchased the Insight.

Sonix,

In my experience if the system is already very good (solid speakers, acoustics, preamp, DAC, source, etc), well designed amps have the least sonic signature differences of all the audio equipment (except cables, which is a topic we don't need to get into

). YMMV, of course.

Try to audition both, but if you cannot, use the measurements of each amplifier to make the decision, because those won't lie.

Sonix · « **Reply #8 on:** 21 Jan 2010, 03:12 am »

Quote from: kip_ on 21 Jan 2010, 02:34 am

Sonix what is your budget? AVA has new tube designs in amps and preamps, the UltraValve and Avastar pre, as well as the new Vision dac/pre

I have heard nothing but good things about AVA

I would like to keep the budget about $5k to $6k, but I need the DAC, preamp, and the amp.

So I would like to ask the experts which complete AVA or W4S package would hit the sweet spot as the ideal match for these Salks without overspending to obtain the last 2% in sound performance. I belive Jim recommends a max of 250 watts SS or 150 tube watts. I realize that he has used AVA at the trade shows to power his speakers, but I understand ice power is catching on.

And of course i would love to hear the impressions from those who may have tread in these waters.

I realize that what I am seeking may never have been done before by anybody, but hopefully enough
feedback can be obtained to arrive at an "educated guess" on what I should get.

-Ken

Sonix · « **Reply #9 on:** 21 Jan 2010, 03:26 am »

Quote from: Nuance on 21 Jan 2010, 03:10 am

Sonix,

Try to audition both, but if you cannot, use the measurements of each amplifier to make the decision, because those won't lie.

Thanks for chiming in Nuance.
I can say I am only here because of your "quests" which I both read cover to cover. Excellent work!

Actually, when I retired I moved from Florida to the Philippines, so I won't be able to audition anything!

So I depend on other people's experiences, but that is how I ended up with my existing system which turned out great. Now it is time to move up to Hi-Fi!

-Ken

oneinthepipe · « **Reply #10 on:** 21 Jan 2010, 03:28 am »

Quote from: Nuance on 21 Jan 2010, 03:10 am

use the measurements of each amplifier to make the decision, because those won't lie.

Measurements can be obtained and reported differently by different manufacturers. Also, amplifier manufacturers "voice" their products differently. In the AVA line, the components have different characteristics. Notwithstanding, a Vision DAC, a T8 preamp, and an Ultra Double 550 would provide wonderful sound and would meet your budget or come in very close.

satfrat · « **Reply #11 on:** 21 Jan 2010, 03:40 am »

Quote from: Sonix on 21 Jan 2010, 03:12 am

I would like to keep the budget about $5k to $6k, but I need the DAC, preamp, and the amp.

So I would like to ask the experts which complete AVA or W4S package would hit the sweet spot as the ideal match for these Salks without overspending to obtain the last 2% in sound performance. I belive Jim recommends a max of 250 watts SS or 150 tube watts. I realize that he has used AVA at the trade shows to power his speakers, but I understand ice power is catching on.

And of course i would love to hear the impressions from those who may have tread in these waters.

I realize that what I am seeking may never have been done before by anybody, but hopefully enough
feedback can be obtained to arrive at an "educated guess" on what I should get.

-Ken

FWIW, the D-Sonic Magnum amp that I was listening to had 525 watts going into the HT-3's and they were loving every minute of it. Whether that much power is really needed is debatable tho and your own listening preferences(high/low volume) and listening envirement (large room?) are also food for thought.

Cheers,
Robin

kip_ · « **Reply #12 on:** 21 Jan 2010, 03:42 am »

UltraValve 70 and Vision DAC/Pre. Unless you need more than 35wpc, in which case I'd go with an Ultra 550

Sonix · « **Reply #13 on:** 21 Jan 2010, 03:47 am »

Quote from: satfrat on 21 Jan 2010, 03:40 am

FWIW, the D-Sonic Magnum amp that I was listening to had 525 watts going into the HT-3's and they were loving every minute of it. Whether that much power is really needed is debatable tho and your own listening preferences(high/low volume) and listening envirement (large room?) are also food for thought.

Cheers,
Robin

Satfrat,

Good points I forgot to mention...Room will be a medium sized dedicated listening room approx 15ft x 19ft x 9ft.
I would like to get up to THX reference level 85db and peaks at 110db.

Thanks,
-Ken

Sonix · « **Reply #14 on:** 21 Jan 2010, 03:54 am »

Hey Nuance,

If you could upgrade your Emo amp, would you? and what would you get for your beautiful SongTowers?

Sorry if I missed your comments if previously posted.

Thank You Very Much!
-Ken

Nuance · « **Reply #15 on:** 21 Jan 2010, 05:45 am »

Quote from: oneinthepipe on 21 Jan 2010, 03:28 am

Measurements can be obtained and reported differently by different manufacturers. Also, amplifier manufacturers "voice" their products differently.

True, but measurements will usually show if and how the amp was "voiced." You just need to trust the source of said measurements. Most of the big magazines have the means to take credible measurements. I never take the manufacturer's word for it.

Quote from: Sonix on 21 Jan 2010, 03:54 am

Hey Nuance,

If you could upgrade your Emo amp, would you? and what would you get for your beautiful SongTowers?

Sorry if I missed your comments if previously posted.

Thank You Very Much!
-Ken

If you're just looking for my opinion, I'd be happy to share.

Yes, I'd love to dump the Emotiva amp. It doesn't have enough power to handle large dynamics and transients. If I could afford it, I'd buy a Parasound Halo A21 or Van Alstine FetValve Ultra 550. I would chose the A21 because I've heard it and it sounds amazing to my ears. It also measures well. And I'd choose the FetValve 550 because I have faith in what Jim, Henry (oneinthepipe), Greg (OgOgilby) and many other AVA owners/auditionees (yeah, I just made up that word) hear. From everything I've read and been told, the AVA stuff is very neutral, just passing along the signal, and that's exactly what I am looking for. I wouldn't be surprised if the two amps sound exactly the same under level matched, blind conditions. In other words, both are very well designed, extraordinary, and perfect for me. Plus we know they are both built like tanks.

Hope that helps.

martyo · « **Reply #16 on:** 21 Jan 2010, 01:17 pm »

Quote

Quote from: oneinthepipe on Yesterday at 09:28 PM
Measurements can be obtained and reported differently by different manufacturers. Also, amplifier manufacturers "voice" their products differently.

Quote
True, but measurements will usually show if and how the amp was "voiced." You just need to trust the source of said measurements. Most of the big magazines have the means to take credible measurements. I never take the manufacturer's word for it.

That's an interesting statement. I don't think I can do that.

Atlplasma · « **Reply #17 on:** 21 Jan 2010, 02:42 pm »

Quote from: Nuance on 21 Jan 2010, 05:45 am

True, but measurements will usually show if and how the amp was "voiced." You just need to trust the source of said measurements. Most of the big magazines have the means to take credible measurements. I never take the manufacturer's word for it.

If you're just looking for my opinion, I'd be happy to share.

Yes, I'd love to dump the Emotiva amp. It doesn't have enough power to handle large dynamics and transients. If I could afford it, I'd buy a Parasound Halo A21 or Van Alstine FetValve Ultra 550. I would chose the A21 because I've heard it and it sounds amazing to my ears. It also measures well. And I'd choose the FetValve 550 because I have faith in what Jim, Henry (oneinthepipe), Greg (OgOgilby) and many other AVA owners/auditionees (yeah, I just made up that word) hear. From everything I've read and been told, the AVA stuff is very neutral, just passing along the signal, and that's exactly what I am looking for. I wouldn't be surprised if the two amps sound exactly the same under level matched, blind conditions. In other words, both are very well designed, extraordinary, and perfect for me. Plus we know they are both built like tanks.

Hope that helps.

Hey Nuance. There's an open box A21 on ebay for "just" $1650. I have the ST RT and would like to upgrade my amps as well. Currently I drive the front channels with three Outlaw Monoblocks. They have lots of power, but the sound is a bit sterile to my eyes. Interestingly, I have an ancient Eico ST-70 that puts out around 30 watts per channel (on a good day), and I prefer its sound for music.

oneinthepipe · « **Reply #18 on:** 21 Jan 2010, 03:19 pm »

Quote from: Nuance on 21 Jan 2010, 05:45 am

If I could afford it, I'd buy a Parasound Halo A21 or Van Alstine FetValve Ultra 550. I would chose the A21 because I've heard it and it sounds amazing to my ears. It also measures well. And I'd choose the FetValve 550 because I have faith in what Jim, Henry (oneinthepipe), Greg (OgOgilby) and many other AVA owners/auditionees (yeah, I just made up that word) hear.

OgOgilby has the Parasound A-21 amp. We never A-B'ed the amps in either of our systems, but OgOgilby's system sounds terrific. For his two-channel system, he has a AVA T8 DAC, a CJ preamp, and the A-21 amp driving the HT2-TL in a large, treated room.

targa02 · « **Reply #19 on:** 21 Jan 2010, 05:48 pm »

I have been auditioning amps to go with my Salk HT2s (non-TL) Man I love these speakers!! I have not had the good fortune of hearing any of the Van Alstine amps, but based on the rave reviews on this site they must be spectacular. I would audition the AVA gear, but I am looking for a high quality multi-channel and obviously 2-channel set up and I do not have the space or spare WAF available for the two box set up necessary to run AVA amps. I did however compare the Butler 5150 (a hybrid w a different topology than AVA) to the Wyred4Sound ST-500 (only thru 2-channels) using a CJ preamp. The W4S has much less background noise (very black) and better control of bass/extension, but a tad dry at high frequencies. The Butler was slightly more musical. I could easily live with either of these amps.