[bullethead]

I own Harbeth Compact 7ES-3's powered by Bel Canto S300, CD-2, DAC3 and a PS Audio Trio preamp.  Sound is great but recently been reading about Maggies (sound of them unheard).  Would anyone explain what differences I could expect between the Harbeth's and let's say I have room for 1.7's.  Can anyone tell me how much different the sound from ribbon/quasi ribbon is compared to traditional boxes like the Harbeth's?  I was thinking of ordering the MMGs and using my 400 watt Dussun v6I amp just to see if the sound would suit my needs.  I listen to a lot of ambient, dark ambient, noise music as well as jazz and some black metal (mostly atmospheric instrumentals)

I would rather like real world in house idea about the differences between maggies and boxes.  How different would the MMGs be than the 1.6 in terms of initial idea about how these things sound.  Would the MMG in house demo be too little to understand this technology?  I am really curious.

[jimdgoulding]

Particularly having read your preferences in music, I believe Mags will give you something you will like.  But, buy the 1.6's.  The little ones just won't deliver enough of the goods.  Bass, for example, and sense of space.  These panel speakers make very small excusions to produce volume so their panel size matters.  Mags deliver a large wavefront in both the front and back directions.  You will need some room behind them to take full advantage of what this can combine to make.  Sounds like you have ample power.  I think the 1.6's may be 4 ohm.  I'm sure more guys will chime in here. 

[drphoto]

I'm a Maggie fan. They can sound magical w/ the right material. Plus if you have the right room to give them the space they need, they just look cool. Non audio types usually flip over the sight of a speaker that is less than an inch deep.

They present the soundstage differently (likewise w/ other dipole speakers, I assume) than conventional speakers. The image is larger, but more diffuse. I think it's more realistic, but a lot of people don't care for it. Plus some feel like they can make solo instruments sound like they are too big. I've heard descriptions of a '6 foot sax'. I think they get the sound of an upright bass better than most anything else. I love them w/ acoustic jazz.....hence my 'right material' comment.

The biggest problem w/ Maggies at least up to the 1.6, is they are dynamically limited. You just get no sense of impact in that important mid bass area. Trying to use subs would require at least a pair in order to run them up high enough to cover that area.

The 1.6 can benefit a lot from crossover component upgrades as detailed over at the Asylum MUG forum.

Maggies tend to be a bit like Mac computers, you either love 'em or hate 'em. You gotta go hear them before deciding.

I've come to realize, like a number of other people that dynamics, both micro and macro are very important for realistic music reproduction. I went from a Maggie 2c (highly modded) to Merlins. My next move will likely be some version of the Gedlee design in pursuit of dynamic capability.

BTW: I really like Harbeth (and most Brit speakers in general)

[ecramer]

That's some of my favorite types of music and i would have to agree with Jim if you go the maggie route buy the 1.7

Ed

[bullethead]

Thanks a lot all for the descriptions of the sound.  I have a dealer pretty close by where I work.  I'll make an appointment to hear the new 1.7s (they told me Early Feb they will be on display).

I'll bring some music I am familiar with and make a decision.  Also I didn't think the MMGs would be a accurate representation of what these puppies can do.  I appreciate the help, I just have to go hear for myself it seems.

[doorman]

Not a bad choice to have to make!
Those Harbeth's are some fine sounding speakers!
Best, Don

[ncblue]

With your taste in music. I would stick with the Harbeths.
Nat

[Stu Pitt]

The Maggies will sound different.  Better or not is a personal choice.  Harbeths are a phenominal speaker.  There are very few speakers that can compete with them IMO.

I just can't get into Maggies or other planar-type speakers.  I appreciate what they do, and they do a lot of things very well.  They're just always missing something to my ears.

Listen to the Maggies for a little while, not a quick few minutes.  Make sure you bring some of your bass-heaviest music too.

[drphoto]

Only you can tell. Some like blondes, others redheads.....

Like the others said, Harbeths are sweet. Maybe hi pass them and add some quality subs? (I'm also become a big believer in the multiple sub concept) The GR Research servos are topnotch. They give you the same sort of bass quality that I liked from Maggies, but w/ real balls. I always hated subs until I got this setup. I'm running a 2x2 OB version (yup...OB subs w/ sealed monitors) No bloat or overhang and you cannot tell where they are or where they come into play. Completely seamless. I'm also using a bipolar Mirage sub set at very low level.

Getting some solid foundation under what is a really good speaker might change your mind about switching.

I have a friend who was a hard core mini monitor/tube amp 'purist'. He came over and heard my setup and was pretty blown away by having really solid quality bass.

[2gumby2]

I heard some Magnepan 20.1s and thought they were some of the best speakers I've ever heard. It was my first time to hear a non-box type speaker and they put out a wall of sound like I've never experienced before. I've also heard Harbeth speakers and they were O.K., but I didn't consider them to be a very good value.

[bullethead]

I like the idea of adding a sub.  I'll go hook one up to my existing setup.  I still want to give the 1.7's a listen, however I am reconsidering after a late night listening session last night.  How often one's mood comes into play when listening is astonishing.  One day not happy, the next day happy.  The music selection last night made a huge difference in my perception of my setup as well.

[BobM]

I've heard 1.6's a lot of times and I was never thrilled with the sound. from the CES reports the 1.7's are really not much more than a cosmetic change. Now the 3.6's are a different story alltogether. I heard them recently and was totally captivated with the sound. I do plan to hear them with my own amp driving them next time I make a trip to the local dealer, instead of the $10,000 AR reference amp that they had driving them (which could make a huge difference in the presentation).

[drphoto]

Well, the Maggie 20.1 is an entirely different beast. But most of us don't have $10K for speaks plus the cost of the amps required to drive them. But yeah....they're pretty awesome!

I will also agree that Harbeth, like Proac and Merlin are pretty pricey new. Maggies tend to hold their value better than most speakers. The venerable 1.6 tends to sell for well above the typical 50% of new price.

I'd caution against a single sub. Despite the old school thought that low frequencies are omni directional, I can always locate it in the soundfield. The new thought is a single sub can not create a smooth in room response. Multiple subs tend to 'smooth out' room interactions. From my experience it works. There are some other post here that explain it better than I did.

Room treatment can make a huge difference too. My rig had a bit of midrange glare which had me thinking I needed a new preamp. A few relatively inexpensive GIK panels solved that problem nicely.

Again....not trying to dissuade you from Maggies. As I said, I really like them.

[steve k]

from the CES reports the 1.7's are really not much more than a cosmetic change.

Where do you get your information? According to Jonathan Valin they're an "unqualified success" and a contender for the best in show. They're completely redesigned and are now a 3-way unit using quasi-ribbon for all drivers unlike the 1.6 which used wires for the bass driver (a al Apogee). They're using a new quasi-ribbon super tweeter that has better dispersion than the old all for only $100 more than the 1.6. I'd say that's a little more than a cosmetic change.

http://www.avguide.com/blog/magnepan-mg-17-unqualified-triumph

[Emil]

Dont listen to BobM. He doesnt know what he's talking about

Be prepared to move them around for best sound. After many years I finally used the Cardas method. Should have done it awhile ago

[BobM]

Sorry if I am misrepresenting the 1.7's. I haven't heard or seen them myself. Just saying (as I stated above) that a lot of people were underwhelmed by them at CES. That may be because they were set up in a home theater-like setup and not as a separate dedicate 2 channel experience. I'm sure more people will be hearing them soon and reporting back, as they get out to the dealers.

[ken]

I've never heard the Harbeth's but from what I understand they're supposed to be very good speakers that do alot right.  That being said any shortcoming associated with Maggies, namely the MMG's and 1.6's have been fully addressed by Peter Gunn and his Modifications over at the Planar asylum.  I heard both the "Gunned smga's and 1.6's and both were outstanding and actually thought the smga's sounded more musical.  For a shade over $2000.00 you'll have speakers that rival anything under $5-7 grand and have that addictive maggie sound.  The only reason I don't own a pair is because the wife clearly stated that there would be no way she would allow "those panels" in our family room.  Too bad wives weren't as interchangeable as speakers although I'm not too sure what mine would fetch on the used market these days

http://www.indiespinzone.com/magnestand.html

[cujobob]

OB Servo Subs are indeed fantastic and should allow you to cross over the mains at a higher frequency than one normally would.

[ajzepp]

I have not had the pleasure of hearing the Harbeths, but I will tell you about  my experience since there are some parallels to be drawn.

I ordered some Maggie MMGs back several years ago after I had to sell my HT gear following a divorce. Even though Maggies need a break-in period, I was absolutely captivated the very first time I fired them up. It happened to be an Elvis CD since my mom was over and that's what she had on hand...I'd heard this CD before and was underwhelmed, but on the MMGs it sounded as if it came to life.

After about two years, I decided I wanted to upgrade. I spent tons of my free time auditioning all sorts of speakers and eventually fell in love with some DeVore Fidelity Super 8s. I don't know if you're familiar with the DeVore line, but they are beautiful speakers that are considered among the best in their class. They got me very close to the transparency I loved with my MMGs, and added a little more punch that I felt was missing at the time.

Well, as much as I loved my three years with the Super 8s, I would be lying if I said I didn't miss that "Maggie Magic" that I used to have with both movies and music. (I happen to be someone who LOVES Maggies for HT...the sense of immersion and realism draws me into the film and it's addicting!) It was a VERY hard decision, but I found a great home for my Super 8s and decided I was going to buy 3.6s and "do it right". I gave them 625 Butler audio watts per channel, had a pair of dedicated 20a circuits installed, picked up a pair of Mye stands, ordered a Marchand crossover so that I could bi-amp them properly, and I can tell you that all of my planning and hard work paid off in spades. I have a HUGE, deep soundstage, amazing detail and transparency, lots of punch with any sort of music, etc....I have hit audio nirvana with regard to my speakers.

Sure, the 3.6s are superior to the 1.6 (and likely the 1.7), but smaller Maggies still give you a very nice representation of what the 3.6 and 20.1 offer, and at a fraction of the price. I don't use a subwoofer for music (don't need it), but I use one for movies, and the 1.6s/MMGs will certainly benefit from a quality subwoofer to augment the low end.

So the bottom line is that while I can find a lot to love about a traditional, high end 2-way "box" speaker like the DeVore Super 8s, and could very well be happy with them for a very long time, Maggie is my true love and I'm grateful to have her back in my life  

[turkey]

Harbeth speakers haven't really done much for me. They're kind of just another bunch of drivers-in-a-box. They seem overly polite and not a very good value. That's kind of typical of British speakers in the US...

The Maggies are much more interesting. I think you either like them or you don't, but you'll definitely have an opinion on them.