[Rob Babcock]

One major worry I have w/ DIY'ing speakers is that I won't be able to veneer em well enough.  How many guys here have done veneer/finish woodwork and just what is involved?

BTW, JohnR, hope this question is okay to ask here.  It's not about a specific project, but a general DIY question.  Feel free to move it if it would best be addressed elsewhere.

[ekovalsky]

Azryan built his Alpha LS cabinets and veneered them.  The looked as good as my walnut veneered RM-40's.  If you have the time, I don't think it is too hard but better to ask him.

[Rob Babcock]

Thanks.  A few guys have said it's not that hard, but my concern is getting the corners to match up.

[EchiDna]

there is a few online tutorials around that can help you out with this...

most people use a laminate trimmer bit on a router for matching the cutting of the veneer, or you can use a stanley knife (or whatever your local variation is! - retractable, replaceable blade in a metal 'handle') and an exceptionally steady hand to cut the veneer.

This second approach allows you to continue the grain around 90 degree corners while the first doesn't...
I think the trickiest thing is to make sure the sheet is straight when you stick it on so that it can make it around the speaker without going crooked!

GL with it..

[bubba966]

Rob, the easiest way that you could assure that the corners are fine is to inlay a strip of solid wood in all of the edges, similar to what the RM30's are like.

You could also use non-backed veneer. Then corners would be a lot less to worry about. But there's many good reasons not to do that. Glue soaking through the veneer & ruining the finish is just one that immediately comes to mind. Not to mention it's harder to work with.

You could also put a good sized roundover on the corners and just wrap the veneer around the cabinet with the seam in the back. It's not terribly easy to get a good tight seam though. It's probably the hardest way to do it that I'm mentioning.

The easist way would be to just veneer it in a specific order so as to minimize the viewing of the edges of the veneer. If you're going to be looking at the face & top more than the rest of the speak, you'd do it like so. You'd veneer the bottom first. Then the back next. Next up would be the sides. Then you'd do the top. Lastly you'd do the face.

Or you could do this. Roundover the face of the speak, but leave the back edges square. Wrap the veneer so that one piece covers the sides & the front. So then you'd do the bottom first, back next, the top after that, then the side/front/side with the last piece.

There's plenty of different ways it can be done (I'm probably not thinking of a few at the moment) depending on how you want it to look, how confident you feel in your abilities, what you've got for tools, and what you're using for materials.

[bubba966]

I should also mention that to make things easier, use good tools.

If you're going to use contact cement, don't used solvent based cement. Use water based cement and put 2 coats on the MDF, and one on the veneer is usually adequate.

Get a good solid NON-PLUNGE router, like a Porter Cable 690. Make sure you get a 1/2" collet with it.

Get a good quality 1/2" shank carbide tipped laminate trimming bit. You'll know that's exactly what it's desinged for because there'll be a bigger gap between the bearing & the bit than the gap on a regular flush trim bit.

Make sure the collet & bit shank are clean (no sawdust or other crap), and that you tighten the collet very tight when you put the bit in. Don't bottom out the bit in the collet, bottom it out & then lift it out about 1/4". Set the depth of the bit so that the carbide is only protruding an 1/8" (or less) past the veneer. After you set the depth, make sure you tighten the adjustment know very tight so that it doesn't change.

If you do all of that, it should make veneering fairly easy...

Sorry I don't have much else to say on the subject at the moment. But I've not done much laminate/veneer work in the last 6 or 7 years. So I'm just going off memory. But if you end up with any specific questions, just ask.

[Rob Babcock]

Wow, I didn't realize you were so well versed on woodworking, Brian.  I've got a lot of woodworking experience, but not much where finish grade stuff is concerned.  I don't have a specific project in mind, but I'm considering building some line arrays, either from a kit (GR or Selah) or just trying to come up with my own.  This won't happen right away (to cold in my shop!  I plan to wait for spring/summer.).

[bubba966]

Yeah, well 6 years of college level schooling in finewoodworking & cabinet making will do that to you...  

[JoshK]

You could also use non-backed veneer. Then corners would be a lot less to worry about. But there's many good reasons not to do that. Glue soaking through the veneer & ruining the finish is just one that immediately comes to mind. Not to mention it's harder to work with.

Been there done that.  I made quite a few rookie mistakes on my own 'micros'.  I suggest starting there.  I am referring to the Tang Band based speakers like Brian at RAD offers.   I ordered the parts from CSS without the boxes, bought some 3/4" MDF from HD and proceeded myself.  This is the cheapest project I could come up with in case I blew it.  If you ask my wife, I did.

My speakers didn't turn out so great looking, but I fudged them enough that they aren't too noticeably bad anymore.  Problems I had were many, I will try to list them here so that others avoid my mistakes:

1)  My biggest mistake was starting too lofty. I thought it was going to be easier than was and thought that the plan in my head was good enough.
2)  I choose a very difficult veneer to work with.  Pomele Sapelle.  Basically birdseye like Sapelle.  Problem is this veneer likes to crack at the burls when bending.  Which brings me to problem #3....
3)  I decided to use 1/2" roundover and turn the veneer around the corner.  This caused my veneer to crack all over the place, even with liberal amounts of water to help it bend.  The water and the fact that my veneer wasn't backed, but just straight thin wood leads me to problem #4
4)  My glue started to seep through the veneer in places because it was not backed.

Having made all these mistakes and having now read many easier ways and better methods of doing things I am confident that my second time around will be much different.  I think I will eventually strip the veneer off my micros and start over.  This time I bought a 3/4" roundover bit if I decide to turn the corner.

[bubba966]

Having made all these mistakes and having now read many easier ways and better methods of doing things I am confident that my second time around will be much different. I think I will eventually strip the veneer off my micros and start over. This time I bought a 3/4" roundover bit if I decide to turn the corner.

Josh, even a 3/4" roundover is a bit tight for most veneers. You might want to go even bigger.

And don't just use water. Steam is much better. Or at least water first, then apply heat to it, then bend it.

[Hank]

Hi, I've done lots of veneering and if you use paper-backed veneer, 1/2" roundovers will be fine.  Build a test box and practice.

[Brian Bunge]

I've done a ton of veneering as well.  Everything I've ever read has said to use the solvent-based contact cement; not the water-based stuff.  If you apply the glue liberally and allow it plenty of drying time it will work very well.  BTW, I actually wrote up a small tutorial over at HTF a few years ago about how to veneer an enclosure with wrapping the veneer all the way around the cabinet and placing the seam in the back.

Brian's Veneering Tutorial

Note that the thread got resurrected quite a while later and I posted again about how I now veneer the enclosure all the way around including the back before getting started.  I may go back and rewrite it to better match what I actually do now.  [/url]

[bubba966]

There's no good reason to use solvent based contact cement over water based contact cement.

There's no noxious fumes with water based. Water based isn't highly flamable like solvent based is, as it's not flamable at all. Water based doesn't cost as much to use as solvent based does as it goes a lot farther than solvent based. You can't speed up the dry time with solvent based, where you can with water based & a heat gun. And working time is also much greater with water based (you can leave it overnight w/no problems before joining the veneer to the substrate). You don't have nearly the amount of time to work with solvent based cement before it won't adhere any more.

So solvent based cement is more toxic, more flamable, more expensive, takes longer to use, and is less fexible in it's working time.

They both hold the same.

So why bother with solvent based cement?

You ought to try it Brian, it's much better than using solvent based cement.

[Brian Bunge]

I got the info. from this page from Tape-Ease, who I buy all my veneer from:

http://www.tapeease.com/veneerin.htm

But if we can use water-based cement without having issues with bubbling with paper-backed veneers when we have to dye or stain the veneer before applying the polyurethane finish then I'd be willing to give it a shot.  I know my dad would be thrilled as well!

[bubba966]

Once water based contact cement is dry, it doesn't react much different (if at all) than solvent based cement.

Sure, you're not going to want to use it at seams for repeated high moisture contact areas (such as a seam in a kitchen sink). But you're not going to want to use solvent based sement in such an application either.

Try it. If it's completely dry when you contact the two surfaces together, you shouldn't have any problem. To know when it's completely dry, touch it with your finger. If it sticks to your finger it's not dry yet. But if it doesn't try to stick to your finger than you're good to go. It might take a bit of getting used to using as it does work a bit different than solvent based cement. You don't use as much as you would if you're using solvent based. and it dries in a different manner & amount of time.

But if you've got a good foam brush (high desinty, not the lower density kind) all it takes is a light coat. But on MDF/Particle board, etc you'll want to use 2 light coats. Don't go for one heavy coat as it takes forever to dry, and might not dry completely even though it appears to be dry.

But it really is easier to use. You just need to adjust to the differences between it & solvent based cement is all...

[Brian Bunge]

Well then, we may have to give it a shot.  My dad is always concerned about the fumes from the contact cement being ingited by the pilot light from the heater in our shop.  This might be the answer.

[nigel_pl]

Rob,

Here is some easy to apply on veneer.
http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&DID=7&WebPage_ID=3

Here are some examples of DIY speakers with veneer applied.
http://www.theloudspeakerkit.com/index.php?page=photos

http://www.theloudspeakerkit.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=5&sid=861850c1b76bfb221af61837b82931a4

I found the veneer very easy to apply. Just paste it on like wall paper leaving some excess on the side which you then remove with a razor.

Here are the veneer application instructions. You can obviously apply the veneer using other methods.
http://www.theloudspeakerkit.com/downloads/260-010.pdf