A new concept: the Live Music Reproducer

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 9931 times.

Brian Cheney

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2080
    • http://www.vmpsaudio.com
A new concept: the Live Music Reproducer
« on: 3 Jan 2010, 06:02 pm »
Anyone who reads the 2009 CES thread here about our live vs recorded demonstration at the Zeus Ballroom can learn much about the challenges we faced.  This was new territory and many of my assumptions coming in proved incorrect.  But, that's why you go exploring in the first place--it's the Undiscovered Country, an audio frontier.

What struck me immediately about our demo is, although we could EQ in the frequency domain, adjust delays, treat the room, and have good equipment.  we were not reproducing the dispersion patterns of live instruments properly with our dipole V60.  Instruments radiate either omnidirectionally (strings, keyboards, percussion) or in cardioid pattern (voice, winds, brass).  Two types of speaker mimic these patterns: the omni and the bipole.  Of the two, the bipole is less problematic in the average listening room because you can control the amount and incident angle of reflected energy with baffles and waveguides. 

Bipoles require a very sturdy cabinet and cannot be done well on the cheap.  Also, I wanted more treble surface area to help overcome the HF absorption of large listening rooms like the Zeus.  An array of tweeters was necessary.  Side by side arrays (line sources) need drivers in very close proximity in order to radiate as a coherent source, so the tweeters would have to be short and narrow, placed as close to the mid panels as possible.   The integral bass section would have to be large and powerful. The entire design shouts out for execution at the highest quality level, better than what we had done before.

I also needed a system that could take full advantage of modern DSP and be user friendly and accessible.  Just dealing with typical room problems is impossible without such processing power.  This has little to do with the quality of the speaker--no uncorrectable speaker I know, regardless of price, would have reproduced live music properly in that environment.  Simple "linearity", "accuracy", "time alignment" or fixed off-axis dispersion patterns would not do the job for every listener, and we had 30 of them to make happy.

Sound reinforcement systems ignore virtually all these considerations and focus on deliving adequate sound pressure levels to a wide audience.  We had to do this too, but without the coloration of horns or many other types of waveguides.  Indeed, the task at hand was daunting and would require a complete rethinking.

In the RM50, a true Live Music Reproducer, the challenges have been almost entirely overcome, as we shall demonstrate at THE SHOW.  Come to the Flamingo Hotel, Lake Mead ballroom and decide for yourself.  We will have live vs recorded demonstrations all four days with solo piano, voice, winds, string bass, percussion, guitar, bass drum, just about everything.  And we will play your CD's on request.  They will sound much closer to live too.

The RM50 base model (including DSP processor) is $12,900pr, within reach of many audiophiles.  Options, including many improvements to the processor, exotic finishes, fancy wiring and capacitors in the analog parts, are available.  If you did them all you'd end up spending about $20k, which is not too bad given the megabuck systems out there which can't and don't always satisfy their owners.

Audiophile life has become easier now, its frustrations far fewer, satisfaction levels much higher.  Listen and see if you agree.

satfrat

  • Restricted
  • Posts: 10855
  • Boston Red Sox!! 2004 / 2007 / 2013
Re: A new concept: the Live Music Reproducer
« Reply #1 on: 3 Jan 2010, 08:34 pm »
I don't see the RM50 on your website yet Brian. Do we need to wait til after CES to see what a $20k Live Music Reproducer looks like? Thanks.  :D
 
Cheers,
Robin 

gerald porzio

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 412
Re: A new concept: the Live Music Reproducer
« Reply #2 on: 3 Jan 2010, 08:47 pm »
AR did this in the 60s w/ a string quartet. Calling this a new concept is incorrect.

Brian Cheney

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2080
    • http://www.vmpsaudio.com
Re: A new concept: the Live Music Reproducer
« Reply #3 on: 3 Jan 2010, 08:54 pm »
Not so.  While AR did indeed hold live vs recorded demonstrations, they were not done "honestly", i.e. recorded and played back in the same environment, instantaneously.

AR recorded music anechoically, then played back outdoors or in a hall through their normal speakers.  No "problem of the two acoustics" to deal with, as we do.  The RM50 was designed with the flexibility modern DSP provides.It is the first true "live music reproducer".

First pix will be from CES.

John Casler

Re: A new concept: the Live Music Reproducer
« Reply #4 on: 3 Jan 2010, 11:00 pm »
I don't see the RM50 on your website yet Brian. Do we need to wait til after CES to see what a $20k Live Music Reproducer looks like? Thanks.  :D
 
Cheers,
Robin

Hey Robin, (Lillian said Hi)

As B said she is under a veil (so we can have an "unveiling")

And when they are available we'll give out the VEGAS Live recordings so that others can hear  what happend in Vegas.

Who said what "happens" in Vegas stays in Vegas?  Not in this case.

What happens in Vegas can also happen in your system. aa

satfrat

  • Restricted
  • Posts: 10855
  • Boston Red Sox!! 2004 / 2007 / 2013
Re: A new concept: the Live Music Reproducer
« Reply #5 on: 3 Jan 2010, 11:10 pm »
Hey Robin, (Lillian said Hi)

As B said she is under a veil (so we can have an "unveiling")

And when they are available we'll give out the VEGAS Live recordings so that others can hear  what happend in Vegas.

Who said what "happens" in Vegas stays in Vegas?  Not in this case.

What happens in Vegas can also happen in your system. aa

Well John, unlike Lillian who has a permanent position on the wall at the foot of my bed (lipstick included :thumb: ), A 20k system can never happen in my system. But as it is with Lillian's calander layout, one can dream with a picture of the RM50. I can wait,,,  :D
 
Cheers,
Robin

John Casler

Re: A new concept: the Live Music Reproducer
« Reply #6 on: 3 Jan 2010, 11:15 pm »
Well. . .Although they cannot be had for a "song", (unless it is the song rights from a Michael Jackson or Beatles Songbook) I know a dealer who might be able to reduce the "affordability gap" slightly. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Housteau

Re: A new concept: the Live Music Reproducer
« Reply #7 on: 4 Jan 2010, 10:22 pm »
This should be interesting.  My bags are nearly packed and trying to fit in all the gear has been a bit of a trick, but so far, so good.  I will be there scouting out the new territory in less than 24 hrs now.

John Casler

Re: A new concept: the Live Music Reproducer
« Reply #8 on: 5 Jan 2010, 05:40 pm »
As an added "bonus" Brian has informed me that we will also have "scantily clad maidens promoting for us out front", so for those who might need additional motivation other than smoozing with Harry Pearson (HP) before or after his Bass Drum solo.

I will be volunteering my services to coordinate said maidens operation and dining schedules. aa

rollo

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 5469
  • Rollo Audio Consulting -
Re: A new concept: the Live Music Reproducer
« Reply #9 on: 5 Jan 2010, 06:00 pm »
Good luck john.

charles

lonewolfny42

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 16918
  • Speakers....What Speakers ?
Re: A new concept: the Live Music Reproducer
« Reply #10 on: 7 Jan 2010, 06:48 am »
As an added "bonus" Brian has informed me that we will also have "scantily clad maidens promoting for us out front", so for those who might need additional motivation other than smoozing with Harry Pearson (HP) before or after his Bass Drum solo.

I will be volunteering my services to coordinate said maidens operation and dining schedules. aa

"scantily clad maidens".....I hope you brought your camera John... aa  :lol:

jhm731

Re: A new concept: the Live Music Reproducer
« Reply #11 on: 8 Jan 2010, 08:48 pm »



audiochef

Re: A new concept: the Live Music Reproducer
« Reply #12 on: 9 Jan 2010, 05:54 am »
C'mon now JHM, why are you teasing us with this vague photo of the RM50?
It's been all day. A better shot please.

jhm731

Re: A new concept: the Live Music Reproducer
« Reply #13 on: 9 Jan 2010, 07:19 pm »
C'mon now JHM, why are you teasing us with this vague photo of the RM50?
It's been all day. A better shot please.

Sorry, I'm not at the show, here's the only other RM50 picture I've found:



satfrat

  • Restricted
  • Posts: 10855
  • Boston Red Sox!! 2004 / 2007 / 2013
Re: A new concept: the Live Music Reproducer
« Reply #14 on: 9 Jan 2010, 09:41 pm »
Thanks for digging them up jhm, much appreciated!  :thumb:
 
Cheers,
Robin

Darac

Re: A new concept: the Live Music Reproducer
« Reply #15 on: 10 Jan 2010, 06:27 pm »
Wow what a nice surprise ! I want a complete technical and foto data for my magazine.

John Casler

Re: A new concept: the Live Music Reproducer
« Reply #16 on: 10 Jan 2010, 07:24 pm »
Good luck john.

charles

Hi Charles,

As it turned out I would have needed more than luck as the "scantilly clad" shillettes, never materialized and instead an older gentleman, stood at the escalators to direct traffic.

 :lol: :lol: :lol:

John Casler

Re: A new concept: the Live Music Reproducer
« Reply #17 on: 10 Jan 2010, 07:25 pm »
C'mon now JHM, why are you teasing us with this vague photo of the RM50?
It's been all day. A better shot please.

Look here for a more detailed view (BUT NOT a better photo)

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=76191.msg716962#msg716962

John Casler

Re: A new concept: the Live Music Reproducer
« Reply #18 on: 10 Jan 2010, 07:27 pm »
"scantily clad maidens".....I hope you brought your camera John... aa  :lol:

Hi Chris,

Well the "maidens" never showed, but the RM50's did. 

PLMONROE

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 643
Re: A new concept: the Live Music Reproducer
« Reply #19 on: 11 Jan 2010, 06:44 am »
Hi Chris,

Well the "maidens" never showed, but the RM50's did. 
/quote]

NOT A PROBLEM! For that all you had to do was go to the "other convention" at the Sands.  :lol: :lol:  :drool:

Paul