[silvermesa]

Hello!

What HT receivers do you have in your own systems  that synergise with songtowers to produce a great audio and video experience?

Need to select a up to date quality receiver to run a songtower 5.1 set up. I would like to keep this receiver under $1500. My gear consists of 2 pair songtowers qwt, 1 song center and song sub. This will be placed in a livingroom/home theater set up. Room dimensions 12'x27'x8'.

It is very confusing with so many options available. It has been recommended that Denon, Pioneer, Onkyo and others could work. Some units such as the Denon 3808 ci are still available but are being discontinued. I am not sure I want to buy a unit that is no longer in production for warranty sake? In the same line of receivers one reviewer will say the more expensive unit sounds better than a unit with less features by the same manufacturer? I've noticed some units that have a msrp above my range are being discounted heavily and now are in my range. Units I have read about include Integra 9.9, Pioneer sc-07, Pioneer sc-27, Denon 4308 ci, Denon 4310 ci, Denon 3808 ci.

I am considering a ati 1506 amplifer to use with songtowers for HT  based on a user recommendation. I will probably combine all of this with an oppo BD-83 blue ray player. Just hoping to create a stunning HT experience.

Thank you in advance!

Silvermesa

[Nuance]

Sounds like you already have and/or will soon have some great gear.  In my opinion, the HT receiver choice simply comes down to features.  Do you want video processing, or video passthrough?  How many HDMI ports do you need?  How about subwoofer outputs?  Do you need preouts, and if not, how much power do you need?  What kind of impedance does the receiver need to handle?  Etc, etc, etc...

If you will be using the receiver for 2-channel music listening as well, what kind of DAC is in said unit?  Does it have a pure audio mode, or something to that effect?  Personally I feel a cheap preamp and amp combo will improve sound quality for music, but many cannot accommodate this.  If that's the case, in my opinion you should pick based on the features you'll need.  You can always add an external amp down the road, and even a 2-channel preamp with HT bypass if you still want more.  You'll never know until you try out a receiver, though. 

I think the manufacturer recommendations you've been given are good.  Narrow the choices down based on features, then use a combination of research/reading reviews and auditioning (if possible) to further narrow the choice down to one.

Good luck.

P.S.  I use an Onkyo 805 receiver for HT only, and love it!

[silvermesa]

One further question for Nuance or others.

Are you saying, if I purchase a amplifier to match with a a/v receiver, that amplifer combined with the receiver brand  and speakers will create the quality of sound that will be produced and all recievers made by one maker will then sound the same? So it is then just a matter of selecting features in an av receiver?

Please, others feel free to chime in as well, tell me what has worked for you? Are Denons, Pioneers or others known to create a certain type of sound?   

Silvermesa

[zybar]

One further question for Nuance or others.

Are you saying, if I purchase a amplifier to match with a a/v receiver, that amplifer combined with the receiver brand  and speakers will create the quality of sound that will be produced and all recievers made by one maker will then sound the same? So it is then just a matter of selecting features in an av receiver?

Please, others feel free to chime in as well, tell me what has worked for you? Are Denons, Pioneers or others known to create a certain type of sound?   

Silvermesa

Each receiver (even from the same company) will have its own sonic signature and sound.  While they all pretty much perform the same functions (obviously some have more functions/features than others), they use different parts, architecture, etc...to achieve that functionality.

George

[s_cervin]

I've found the Marantz line to be the most "musical" when compared to Onkyo and Pioneer.  I had the Onkyo pre/pro and felt the Marantz Sr7002 sounded better when using the pre output. 

[funkmonkey]

Complicated question Silvermesa.  There are people on both sides of the Do all receivers sound the same? bomb.  In theory, if they do their job correctly they will not have any "sound" of their own, instead they will faithfully reproduce whatever source material they are fed in a completely neutral manner to which it was originally produced.  There are many different kinds of EQ out there, and each manufacture has their favorite form(s) of it, so when comparing any actual "house sound" or even the sound from one model to the next, you must make sure that none of those sound enhancing, equalizing, or altering features are engaged. 

Getting each receiver and setting it in your room with your speakers would be the best way to compare the raw "sound" of the receivers.  You can then make up your own mind if there is any difference from brand to brand, or through a model line.  This is a very expensive, and very time consuming proposition.

If you are using an external power amp, then there is a whole other can of worms concerning the "sound" of the amp, and synergy with the pre/pro or receiver...  but yes, that would be a good way to compare the sound of just the pre-amp sections of the receivers.

I haven't personally compared any receivers side by side, and think there are very few people out there who actually have compared them with proper comparison control mechanisms in place (the only variable would be the receiver or pre-pro).

All that said, what most people are looking for with a modern receiver is exactly what must be eliminated for a proper comparison of the actual inherent "sound" of the piece.  Everybody wants room correction, EQ, and bass management.  That is great...  and very beneficial... for movies.  I really don't want any of that stuff to taint my music though, if you are of like mind and want faithful music reproduction, and will be using the receiver for both music and for movies, then you should make sure that there is a "pure direct" mode, or "flat" mode, or something similar that will easily defeat all the EQ that you will want for movies, and provide you with pure unadulterated music.  (Really, like Nuance mentioned, the best way to do this is through use of a separate 2 channel pre-amp with a HT bypass feature so that you can "share" the front L/R speakers with your HT system)  Short of getting a separate pre-amp just for music this is a must have feature, and fortunately many modern receivers include such a feature.

Another feature that I think is important these days (and even more-so in the future) is a networking function.  Right now connecting to your network will allow firmware updates, internet radio, streaming music and/or photos from your computer.  Yes, there are other devices that do even more than that via a network connection, but for the firmware updates alone I think it is a worthwhile feature.

One more example...  I wanted the ability to have everything plugged into the receiver via HDMI and still be able to watch cable TV, or play a game on my PS3, without turning the receiver on.  Sounds simple, right?  Nope.  Until this year, only one brand offered that feature.  Now I know of two brands that will do it, and the receiver must be in "standby" to accomplish this passthrough.  Many receivers must be fully powered on for any signal to be passed through.  Some people don't care about this, but I do because I am somewhat energy conscious and do not always want to play a game or watch TV with full surround sound, when just the TV speakers will suffice.

That's the kind of stuff to look for.  Decide what features you want/need, then pick the least expensive AVR that offers them.  Factor in the amp section if you are going to use it.  If you are using an external power amp for your fronts I wouldn't worry about this part at all.  Anything available right now with pre-outs has an adequate built in power amp to handle most surrounds.

Wow, didn't expect to write all this, but I just picked a receiver myself (strictly for HT use), it will serve as an amp for surrounds when I add them eventually  but for now all it has to do is act as a switch and provide a 3.0 soundtrack for movies! 

Search the web for answers (well at least opinions) to your question about how each brand sounds.  some will say Denon sounds thin, some say Denon sounds warm....  Yamaha sounds too clinical and lifeless... Yamaha gives me way better sound than anything, and I've tried them all...  Onkyo drives hard and reveals all kinds of detail...  Onkyo sounds horrible, I'm returning it...  Pioneer is warm and lush...  Pioneer is lacking in dynamics...   For everything that is out there, there is someone that will love it, and someone that will hate it.

Good luck sorting it all out. 

[Mr_Superstar]

I have a Marantz 7002 and I really like it. However, I'm really starting to think hard about jumping on the separate pre-amp bandwagon. I'm trying to maximize the performance of my SongTower's (and the performance is already very high..).  I just wish I could find a tubed preamp w/ ht-bypass (including subwoofer..)

[shipdriver]

Remember that SongTowers are 4 ohm speakers. Even though the impedance curves for the STs pretty much bottom out at 4 ohms, they are probably still too much for most sub-$1500 receivers- at least over the long term. I wouldn't feel comfortable with the way higher current and heat load on the transistors, most likely shortening the lifespan of the receiver. However, you may be able to get good use at low listening levels, but is that an acceptable limitation for such an investment in wonderful speakers (and receiver)? Look at what speakers the receivers are rated for. Some of them may actually be rated for 4 ohms. My Denon is only rated for 6 ohms (and it is a flagship receiver albeit almost 10 years old), but I treasure it, so I got a separate stereo power amp to shoulder the load (my surrounds are 8 ohm).  If you get the ATI 1506 (which I believe is itself a discontinued model- I think they are on 18XX models now) you should have no worries, but then make sure the receiver you get has pre-outs.

[Nuance]

One further question for Nuance or others.

Are you saying, if I purchase a amplifier to match with a a/v receiver, that amplifer combined with the receiver brand  and speakers will create the quality of sound that will be produced and all recievers made by one maker will then sound the same? So it is then just a matter of selecting features in an av receiver?

Please, others feel free to chime in as well, tell me what has worked for you? Are Denons, Pioneers or others known to create a certain type of sound?   

Silvermesa

Each receiver (even from the same company) will have its own sonic signature and sound.  While they all pretty much perform the same functions (obviously some have more functions/features than others), they use different parts, architecture, etc...to achieve that functionality.

George

Well said.  I agree. 

[sirbrine]

I don't have a lot of experience with different systems since my system is 15 years old.  I just recently replaced my old Yamaha receiver with an RX-V863 model.

I have been corresponding with Jim Salk for awhile about a pair of SongTowers and a SongCenter and I was very concerned about the 4 ohm issue at first.  However, Jim felt that even my old 85wpc Yamaha Receiver would easily handle the SongTowers and considers the SongTowers to be a relatively easy load for almost any receiver or amp.

From my prior research, it seems that many receivers can probably handle 4 ohms even though they may only be officially rated to 6 ohms.  If I remember correctly, it seems that it may be more costly for the manufacturer to get a UL listing at 4 ohms.

Haviing said this, I don't listen to anything at super loud levels, and it might be more of a concern if I did.

[Nuance]

sirbrine,

I have an old Yamaha receiver lying around that is maybe 65 watts per channel (I'd have to check).  It has a switch on the back that you can move to 4 ohms.  If yours has something like that, then there you go.  Otherwise I wouldn't sweat it.  It will probably handle the SongTower's just fine.

[srb]

I have an old Yamaha receiver lying around that is maybe 65 watts per channel (I'd have to check).  It has a switch on the back that you can move to 4 ohms.  If yours has something like that, then there you go.  Otherwise I wouldn't sweat it. It will probably handle the SongTower's just fine.

The 4 ohm switch is an output limiter so that it won't overheat if the impedance gets too low.  It's probably better to leave it in the 8 ohm position, and monitor the heat coming off of the amplifier.  If it doesn't get too warm, you will have the benefit of better headroom and dynamics, but if it does seem to get too hot, switch it to the 4 ohm position.
 
Steve

[jd3]

I've used several different receivers with my SongTowers...a Panasonic XR-55, Onkyo SR-606, and a Harmon Kardon (don't remember now which model, but it was rated at 50 wpc), and I was happy with the HT performance with all of them.  None of them had any problems driving the ST's, and they were all 'lower end' receivers.  As stated above, I'd find the feature set you want, and go for it.   I switched to separates not because of issues with HT performance, but none of the receivers offered the 2 channel audio performance I was looking for.

John

[Nuance]

The 4 ohm switch is an output limiter so that it won't overheat if the impedance gets too low.  It's probably better to leave it in the 8 ohm position, and monitor the heat coming off of the amplifier.  If it doesn't get too warm, you will have the benefit of better headroom and dynamics, but it if does seem to get too hot, switch it to the 4 ohm position.
 
Steve

True, true.

[mchuckp]

I have not tried it but you may want to consider the Emotiva UMC-1 processor and one of their amps.  Very reasonably priced.  If you wanted to try out their USP-1 stereo preamp in the mix as well for music, it supports HT Bypass.  I'm not an emotiva fanboy but do own the USP-1 and it is an excellent preamp for under $400.  Again, I can't speak to the performance of their other gear but there is a lot of positive press about their amps.

Like others have said, whatever you get get I highly recommend at least getting something with a Direct Mode or Pure Audio.  I can't imagine something in the price range you are talking wouldn't though.  I used an Onkyo 805 for years and then bought an Outlaw multichannel amp to use with it.  Made a nice improvement (mainly for music).  Since then I've ditched 5.1 for stereo.  Some day I'll likely have a surround set again but right now I'm really into maximizing my performance for music.  One option you could try is getting an AV receiver and a 2 channel amp just to run your mains.  Or go balls out with a multichannel amp.

BTW, your choice of likely opting for an Oppo Bluray player is spot on.  I have the Special Edition (for advanced audio) and love it.  Easily the best DVD upconversion I've personally seen hands down and everyone I know personally who bought one agrees.  Throw in that it supports every audio disc format under the sun and it is a bargain. 

Best of luck.

[bryede]

I am using an Arcam AVR300 which is an older model (in the fast-paced world of AV receivers) but I don't need all the fancy new HDMI stuff for my particular setup. The Arcam has been one of the most musical components I've ever owned.