From 7B-ST to 7B-SST2

pjg66 · « **on:** 21 Dec 2009, 01:58 am »

In 1998 I purchased a pair of Bryston 7B-ST's to power my (then) one-year old Aerial 10T's. The effect was amazing - those speakers opened up like the parting of the Red Sea! Since then I've listened happily to the Aerial/Bryston combo with not one whit of an urge to upgrade or replace anything.

But I am curious. I haven't closely followed the evolution of Bryston amps, but know that the 7B series is now up to the 7B-SST2 (and concerning MF's recent review of this amp - please let's not go there in this thread). Hearing the SST2 for myself would not be practical, as I live in an area where high-end audio is virtually non-existent.

So .... if any of you have experience, opinions, or insights, I would love to know: in terms of sitting down and listening to music, what improvements/changes/differences would there be in going from the 7B-ST to the 7B-SST2?

My apologies if this question has been answered in other threads. If so, I would appreciate referral to such. Believe me, I did look, but just couldn't find my question precisely addressed.

Thanks for sharing anything you can about this.

Good Listening!

pjg66

Mag · « **Reply #1 on:** 21 Dec 2009, 03:11 am »

I use a 3B SST/2 in a MC setup.
In terms of voicing Bryston amps have the same signature sound. You can have and ST, SST, SST/2 without changing the presentation.

The SST/2 has better controlled highs and better bass resolution, reveals more inner detail in recordings and has a very convincing 3D imaging.
However a good pre-amp IMO is important as I feel that using my Yamaha AV receiver as a pre is not quite able to resolve the extra bass resolution in 2 channel stereo mode.

Also even using a good source, BCD-1 for example, the SST/2 extracts more detail from a recording than the BCD-1 is capable of delivering through my other Bryston amps.

Levi · « **Reply #2 on:** 21 Dec 2009, 04:38 am »

x2 I think Mag hit the nail on the head.

In addition, Bryston does "evolutionary [changes] instead of revolutionary" [some reviewer]. Meaning your 7B are already great sounding amps. As you move to the latest SST and SST2, you are closer to the music. Same tonality. They are cleaner sounding each step up. Better low-level details and dynamic resolution. It is like moving from 4cyl, 6 to 8 for the low-end torque and silky smooth top-end.

James Tanner · « **Reply #3 on:** 21 Dec 2009, 09:38 am »

Yes if I can add my $00.02.
The ability to extract more and more low level resolution from the source is what you work towards in these evolutionary changes. Fine tuning the very low level distortions, looking at real world speaker loads under dynamic conditions and especially reducing the residual noise floor of the amplifiers is where we found a lot of improvements could be made over the many years we have been doing this.

If you look at the noise floor numbers and especially the incredible low IM distortion in the new SST2 models it truly is approaching the theoretical limits of today's technology.

A good friend of mine once described to me his analogy of what an amplifier designer should do over time. He said "think of a piece of audio gear as a barbed wire ... and over time your job is to continue to file down the barbs until you have a straight wire with gain"

james

1oldguy · « **Reply #4 on:** 21 Dec 2009, 05:10 pm »

Hi James
I would have to agree that Bryston has done that.

rob80b · « **Reply #5 on:** 21 Dec 2009, 08:08 pm »

Quote from: pjg66 on 21 Dec 2009, 01:58 am

So .... if any of you have experience, opinions, or insights, I would love to know: in terms of sitting down and listening to music, what improvements/changes/differences would there be in going from the 7B-ST to the 7B-SST2?

pjg66

Hi pjg66

Haven't heard the SST2, don't want to as I can't accord another upgrade right now. But after moving up to a SST from ST I found the biggest improvement at the top, more natural and extended with plenty of detail, I was kicking myself for not upgrading sooner.

Robert

vegasdave · « **Reply #6 on:** 22 Dec 2009, 01:02 am »

I have heard the 7BSST2's, and you should definitely set up an audition of them.

ALEX63 · « **Reply #7 on:** 22 Dec 2009, 05:15 am »

Hi James,

I don't know if the new review of the 7BSST2 issue of Jan 2010 found in Stereophile has been discussed here yet but I just got the magazine in the mail and jumped right away on it just to be totally disappointed !!!!

Michael Framer of Stereophile found the 7BSST2 so unexciting (even after receiveng a newer pair of SST2 with updated transformer) to prefer by far a pair of monoblocks Parasound Halo JC1 .

In his opinion the 7BSST can't live up to the Parasound sound capabilities even if the price and power of both amplifiers is strictly comparable..............

The constant comparison with a pair of 35K Musical Fidelity Titan didn't help either........

Michael Fremer candidly affirms that he never tested any Bryston component nor he knows how the 7BSST2 compares to it's predecessor.

Is beyond me how possibly a professional reviewer of Hi-End gears never tested a classic like Bryston but to me this review smells bias from far away.

Any comments ???

vegasdave · « **Reply #8 on:** 22 Dec 2009, 09:30 am »

Yes, we have discussed that review to death here. The thread no longer exists. Any more talk about it is beating a dead horse, imo.

However, I will say that review is null and void as far as I'm concerned. There was a impedance mismatch between Fremer's preamp and the Bryston amps. That my friend, is unacceptable.

If Stereophile wishes to be fair, then the amps should have a follow-up review. They've done it before, even with components that got favorable reviews.

This is all I'll say on the matter.

pjg66 · « **Reply #9 on:** 23 Dec 2009, 12:55 am »

Thanks everyone for the responses.

The qualitative descriptions are just what I was looking for. And I appreciate James Tanner's lucid explanation of what Bryston is aiming for in improving their amps. His barbed wire analogy is IMO a perfect metaphor for what high-end audio should be about. Unfortunately there are some high-end companies that seem more interested in disguising those barbs than getting rid of them.

Vegasdave is right - the MF review has been beaten to death. I would welcome additional posts to this thread, but PLEASE, not about that review.

Again, thanks and happy holidays.

pjg66

Mad Mr H · « **Reply #10 on:** 24 Dec 2009, 01:32 am »

Hi,

11 years on since your 7B ST purchase, and 11 years for Bryston to consider changes.......

I have had 3,4 & 7 B "ST" series all at the same time.

I got my first pair of 7B SST about 3 years ago, I had three 7B ST at the same time and these ran my 5 ch cinema system.

Without question the 7B SST brought more detail (same Tannoy speakers) in the mix. Faster reaction.

I carried on buying more ST series as these offered excellent value for money.

Once I had all "ST" series to complete my systems I then started looking for SST series.......

I would have gone ALL SST if I could have found them and afforded them......

I now have all SST series and am 100% happy with this choice.

I hope Jan 2010 to have some 7B SST² but not sure yet - If the UK starts to crawl out of recession..........

I have 11 Bryston amps in my system so to upgrade to "2" series will take some time or a lottery win !!!

But FOR SURE if I could afford all "2" series they would be here NOW.....

Bottom line, IM VERY HAPPY and would suggest you went to SST or SST2 series, and I am sure you will be VERY happy with that choice.

My systems are often used by others to compare other equipment and no one has ever had a bad word to say about any of the bryston kit - ANYONE who is invited here ALWAYS speaks freely and many moderate UK forums, or do regular blind tests.........

Go buy em.....

I look forward to hearing your thoughts, 11 years on and you are in for a real treat.....

Andy H.

bacmsl · « **Reply #11 on:** 26 Dec 2009, 07:39 pm »

I have a pair of OB1'S and a 4B-SST, and I was thinking myself about upgrading to a pair of 7B-SST2. I also was wondering about what I would hear in performance or bass or detail with 7B'S VS the 4B'S. Is there anybody that has gone from a 4B to a 7B, maybe the OB1'S won"t match as good as with the 4B. One thing that I am interested in is horns, I used to have a pair of Technics SB-E100 with horns for the top end and mid range. They were great sounding speakers if you like that sound, not bright at all. Anyways I gave them to my son and his Malamute type dog chewed the woofer out them so he landfilled them without telling me. Broke my heart, I would have gotten them fixed. Anyways I would like to get another pair of speakers with horns.

Daniel Datchev · « **Reply #12 on:** 26 Dec 2009, 08:48 pm »

Hi bacmsl,
I think that even 4B-SST are over the limit of OB1.
I drive my OB1i with B100-SST rated 127/128 watts per 8 ohm and the highest position of the volume knob is 12 o`clock.
For short time just to experiment I push the volume knob to position corresponding to 4 o`clock hardly 5 o`clock without driving the speakers to clipping. I personally think that 7B is for BIG GUNS like MB2 and BB5.
Daniel

Levi · « **Reply #13 on:** 26 Dec 2009, 09:13 pm »

Interesting findings there Daniel with your OB1i. One should not buy an amp specially if using the volume and wattage levels as a criteria

.

This is one of the reason auditioning them is every important.

Quote from: Daniel Datchev on 26 Dec 2009, 08:48 pm

Hi bacmsl,
I think that even 4B-SST are over the limit of OB1.
I drive my OB1i with B100-SST rated 127/128 watts per 8 ohm and the highest position of the volume knob is 12 o`clock.
For short time just to experiment I push the volume knob to position corresponding to 4 o`clock hardly 5 o`clock without driving the speakers to clipping. I personally think that 7B is for BIG GUNS like MB2 and BB5.
Daniel

bacmsl · « **Reply #14 on:** 26 Dec 2009, 09:38 pm »

The power requirements of the OB1'S are as pointed out far excceded by the 7B'S but as my bother once said to me( tongue in cheek, I think also there were too many beverages at the time) aa. But it makes perfect sense, " you can never have too much clean power ".

Daniel Datchev · « **Reply #15 on:** 26 Dec 2009, 09:51 pm »

Hi Levi,
I wonder why Americans have such a big engine if they have a speed limit that even Tata can be fine for speeding.
Daniel

werd · « **Reply #16 on:** 26 Dec 2009, 10:35 pm »

Hello

The bigger the better for power (in transistor) imo, looking at the 14B to power my 150 watt Adagios. Like levi commented, if you are looking for Niteclub spl's than of course you would want big loud speakers to go with he big power. But if not different criteria will reign for auditioning. I personally like the robust soundstage that one hears with big power, even at low nite volume.

It is important to mention that the Torus has left me wondering how much big power amps are just a bandaide fix to bad ac delivery. Currently using my 120 watt BC22, and at late nite listening it really is as good as my 4B. Where before the Torus, my 4B was far more defined and stable at low volume. No dead spots in freq. All freq had more power in the soundstage.

With more volume the 4B outshines the BC in every aspect imo. Before and after the Torus.

Daniel Datchev · « **Reply #17 on:** 26 Dec 2009, 11:03 pm »

Hi werd,
I like to have more power at hand, but the question is do we exaggerating the whole thing. If we assume that we need B7-SST for OB1, so for BB5 and BB5 XBD we will need something let say 2000 watts per channel to preserve the same amount of overpower. Do we have something available on the market. It is similar to the situation when we put an 4 cylinder engine in a RR or 12 cylinder engine in a Mini, just because we can afford to buy it. Either path is out of balance.
That`s why my opinion is that a system should be balanced as capability and price. That are my 0.02$
Daniel

Levi · « **Reply #18 on:** 27 Dec 2009, 04:59 am »

Hi Daniel,

Why use 2 cylinder engine whereas it is more efficient to use 4?

I have tried the 9B with my OB1i and sounds good. Why is it when I switched to 7B and sounded so much better?

Don't bother to answer that. It is actually it is a moot point. Most of us already know the answer to that.

Quote from: Daniel Datchev on 26 Dec 2009, 09:51 pm

Hi Levi,
I wonder why Americans have such a big engine if they have a speed limit that even Tata can be fine for speeding.
Daniel

Daniel Datchev · « **Reply #19 on:** 27 Dec 2009, 07:02 am »

Hi Levi,
2 cylinder can be used in motorcycles and rarely in cars.
What I am trying to explain is that the speakers should the the most expensive part in home audio system. For professional used there must be other equipment.The PMC site suggests activation by using Bryston Powerpack 120, which corresponds to 3B-SST. Yes I agree the bigger the better, but there should be some argument for doing it. About 7B-SST, 14B-SST and 28B-SST the concept involved is different to lower range. Mr.Tanner could provide proof for that. That's why many members of the Audiocircle had asked whether there will be a trickle-down technology for lower numbers.
Daniel