[analognut]

I have a Chick Corea album: "Return To Forever". It is on the ECM label and the catalog number is ECM-1-1022, production date 1972. A fine work, it's long been one of my favorites, and it plays like an MFSL Original Master- i.e. no pops or clicks even after many, many plays and all these years.

But I believe I can hear print-through from the master tape on it. For those who don't know what this is, it sounds like a faint echo of the music that follows, which means you only notice it in a quiet passage. It doesn't really detract from the music- it's not loud and almost sounds like an intentional effect. However, when the "effect" is noticeable throughout the course of the entire album one wonders if something else is going on.

Does anyone else have this record and have you noticed "print-through" on your copy?   

[bunnyma357]

I just gave a listen to this on Rhapsody, although it is listed as a 1999 release with different  art work and I'm not noticing anything - it is a lower bit rate feed, but the tape hiss is coming through very clearly - so it doesn't seem like they did any noise gating to eliminate it. Are you hearing a post-echo or a pre-echo?

Brings back memories off having to store tapes tails-out back in my early years as a film editor.


Jim C

[Wayner]

I have heard this effect on several LPs thru the years, just can't remember which ones right now. Bleed thru is simply the strong magnetic field on the tape, affecting adjacent layers on the tape, giving the listener a brief and usually quiet but faint "introduction", before the usual music begins. Yeah, I'd guess I'd call it a "pre-echo" if you want. That works for me. If I hear any today, I'll list them.

Wayner

[bunnyma357]

I have heard this effect on several LPs thru the years, just can't remember which ones right now. Bleed thru is simply the strong magnetic field on the tape, affecting adjacent layers on the tape, giving the listener a brief and usually quiet but faint "introduction", before the usual music begins. Yeah, I'd guess I'd call it a "pre-echo" if you want. That works for me. If I hear any today, I'll list them.

Wayner

As I recall, if a tape is left heads-out it is likely to get a pre-echo where the print through is heard before the actual signal, if left tails-out you get a post-echo which is less offensive to your brain and with music you often can't even discern it is there - on tapes with just narration it is easier to hear it. Of course for consumer formats where the tape is played in both directions the distinction doesn't really matter.

With digital and helical scanning tape formats the issue kind of vanished - but for restoration of old analog master tapes that have been sitting unused for years I'd  imagine it is still an issue.


Jim C

[analognut]

I tried to post pics of this album and made a boo-boo somehow. Tried to fix that. Even made another post (which I just now deleted) and still could not get the front cover to display. Oh well. If anyone is interested the pics are in my gallery for viewing.
 
Bunnyma357:
It is a pre-echo that I hear. Interesting you commented on the tape hiss. There are several tracks on the album which definitely have a sound of tape hiss on them. But it's still a really great album and I highly recommend it to anyone!

[Elizabeth]

I recently mounted a Dynavector Karat 17D3 on a Kuzma TT. The amout of pre-echo sound was astounding.I have never had a setup have so much constant preecho in portions going from soft to loud (operas especially are bad).
  I posted the query over at Audio asylum Vinyl and got a suprise. A LARGE number of folks there say the pre-echo is NOT from master tape print through, but rather from a problem in mastering, in which the 'lacquer', if allowed to sit befor the first metal is made, will be affected so nearby grooves cut with loud music ?'infect' the ones around them.
The theory is if the sound is always exactly one revolution of the LP (thus the groove next to the one is clearly the culprit) from the actual sound, then it IS this lacquer problem. (apparently if the sound does not line up with the single rotation of the LP.. then , obviously it has to be master tape print through.
I personally think this 'idea' of the lacquer is crazy... Buut since i have NOT checked the Lps speed and exact one rotation stuff, i will allow it can be the reason. Plenty of the folks at AA think that IS what is happening.

[neobop]

Print through on an album pressed in 1972 close to the recording date? I think that's unlikely. What is likely is that the people at the Asylum are right about this one. The problem is made worse by heavy trackers, incorrect anti-skate settings, and misalignment. It's really a pressing defect, unless you can adjust, and make it go away.