[Mister Pig]

I have posted an entry or two about this topic while I was sourcing the individual components, but I thought I would put it together in one post.

Bought a Townshend Rock MK III table off of Audiogon for a very reasonable price. Its in beautiful condition, and was well taken care of.

Needed an arm, so I decided to try out the current bang for the buck set up. Bought a Rega RB251(actually a Moth rebrand) and added the Incognito rewire kit. Then added the Riggle Engineering Counterweight and VTAF adjuster.

Scored a phono stage from a fellow AC member. Got a Hagerman Coronet 2 with VCAP and Auricap upgrades. Very nice phono stage. Then another fellow AC'er has a Hagerman Piccolo that I bought. One more item off the check list.

For a phono cartridge I decided to take a chance. I ended up buying an Accuphase AC1 on Audiogon, which had a zero hour retip done by Expert Stylus. All paperwork came with it, and its a beauty.

After a bit of work its all together. Had the table over at a friends house, and gave it a chance to play. Initial impressions are quite favorable. The sound was relaxed and refined, yet still had excellent resolution. Nice presentation of space, but very easy to listen to. Will be interesting to see what it does when I get it back into my system. However, said system is in a bit of a flux, so its going to take awhile to get everything settled down.

Here is a pic of the table finally playing vinyl.




I do have one issue to solve. On some records I cannot get the cue ramp to lower far enough to clear the tonearm when at the inner portion of the record. Have used all the adjustment on the cue device, but its not low enough. There is a convergence of events that creates this problem. One issue it the plate needed to mont a 3 point Rega adds 1/8" to the height of the arm. Also the platter assembly rides quite low in relation to the arm. The bearing is an inverted design, and I cannot space the platter up at all. Finally the cartridge is quite shallow, only 9mm tall, and adds to this situation. Unfortunately, the Rega arm does not have the ability to adjust the height of the whole cuing cylinder. So this is the final issue that needs to be resolved, and so far I am coming up empty with a simple and effective solution.

Regards
Mister Pig

[Scottdazzle]

A thick Herbie's platter mat might be what you need.

[toobluvr]

For the arm to clear the cue ramp when a record is playing, you need to raise the front of the arm relative to the arm's pivot point.

There may be other ways to do it, but I can think of two:

(1) place shims between cartridge and headshell

(2) place a mat between platter and record. 

Both may be needed to get sufficient clearance.

Construct some cheap DIY mats...just to see if you can resolve the clearance issue.  Cut your own out of shelf liner, like cork sheeting or that rubberized stuff.  Or even a thin carpet pad.

Like so:





For shims between headshell and cartridge, you can cut some out of a flexible cutting sheet, or some similar material.   



You may need to double or triple the shims to get the clearance you need.

With either method VTA will be effected (and VTF with the shims), and possibly sonics as well.

Good luck!  It is not an easy challenge.

[Mister Pig]

Yes a platter mat would be an easy solution, however there is an obstacle. Clearance between the silicone trough and the record is quite small. A platter mat would use that distance up. Spacing the trough up would be necessary to. Finally, the sound with acrylic mated to vinyl is very good, not sure I want to alter that.

Regards
Mister Pig

[toobluvr]

Trough can easily be raised up by placing a washer or two (or even a rubber grommet) between the trough and the plinth...on the long bolt that attaches it.

The mat may indeed effect the sound.  Then again, it may not.  At least it will get you spinning without clearance issues.

If you don't like the mat solution, try the shims between cartridge and headshell.  I seriously doubt you will hear any sonic effect. 

But that's just my guess.  I realize there are golden ear types out there that hear dust as it accumulates on their tonearm.

 

[orthobiz]

Don't know how to help your problem but the setup looks really cool. Glad you're back into vinyl!

Paul

[Wayner]

One way to fix your problem is to get rid of the VTA adjustment mechanism. That will lower the back end of the tone arm (to where it should be in the first place). The centerline of the tonearm, when the stylus is on the record, should be parallel with the record surface. It sounds like the tone arm's ass is pointing way to high, which usually makes the record sound shrilly, as the VTA is way too much. If your mounting board had a lower mounting plane, then the VTA mechanism would work better, as it would then be in the working zone. Now, you can't even get the mechanism (or the tone arm) in the proper zone, therefore, rendering the VTA mechanism useless.

Wayner

[toobluvr]

I have the same exact table, but do not have clearance problems.  My arm and cartridges are different, so comparing dimensions on these should illuminate where his problems lie.

Here are my observations:

*  from the photo above, it appears I have the identical armboard as the Pig man.  That means identical thickness.

*  his circular tonearm mounting plate is 1/8 inch thick;  mine is 3/4 inch.  Mine is 5/8 inch thicker, so all other things equal, this makes the rear of his arm lower than mine by that same amount.

*  all my cartridges are 19 mm high (stylus to top of cartridge body) as compared to 9mm for Senor Pig.  That will make the front of his arm about 3/8 inch lower than mine. 

In summary, his root problem is that the arm's rear is too high relative to the front.  The rear and the front of his arm are lower than mine, with his rear dropping more than the front by 1/4 inch. If anything, this relative difference should help his clearance issue!

But it does not, so the logical conclusion must be that compared to my arm, his arm tube starts much higher up on the arm pillar.

One other note,  I raise the rear of my arm about 3mm (for all cartridges) to get the correct VTA.

I think at the end of the day, if you don't wanna mess around with mats and shims, you will need to go to a taller cartridge.  It is the most direct and least kludgey solution. I bet one in the 19mm range would do the trick.  See if you can borrow one to make sure it works before committing $$.
 
Tough dilemma.  Good Luck!

~ John

[Mister Pig]

I have the same exact table, but do not have clearance problems.  My arm and cartridges are different, so comparing dimensions on these should illuminate where his problems lie.

Here are my observations:

*  from the photo above, it appears I have the identical armboard as the Pig man.  That means identical thickness.

*  his circular tonearm mounting plate is 1/8 inch thick;  mine is 3/4 inch.  Mine is 5/8 inch thicker, so all other things equal, this makes the rear of his arm lower than mine by that same amount.

*  all my cartridges are 19 mm high (stylus to top of cartridge body) as compared to 9mm for Senor Pig.  That will make the front of his arm about 3/8 inch lower than mine. 

In summary, his root problem is that the arm's rear is too high relative to the front.  The rear and the front of his arm are lower than mine, with his rear dropping more than the front by 1/4 inch. If anything, this relative difference should help his clearance issue!

But it does not, so the logical conclusion must be that compared to my arm, his arm tube starts much higher up on the arm pillar.

One other note,  I raise the rear of my arm about 3mm (for all cartridges) to get the correct VTA.

I think at the end of the day, if you don't wanna mess around with mats and shims, you will need to go to a taller cartridge.  It is the most direct and least kludgey solution. I bet one in the 19mm range would do the trick.  See if you can borrow one to make sure it works before committing $$.
 
Tough dilemma.  Good Luck!

~ John

Hello,

The real issue is the lack of flexibility of the cuing device on the Rega arm. Every other pivoted arm I have owned has a allen screw that allows the collar around the cue device to be loosened or tightened. Then its a simple matter of adjusting the height of the device. The Rega system is limited at best, or it could even be considered flawed. But given the overall quality of the tone arm, and its selling price...its still a marvel of the audio world.

The good news is that I appear to have solved the problem. Looks like I have been able to get the cue ramp to sit down a touch lower. Possibly there was a burr in there, maybe the cue cylinder lowered a hair more as it was being used. Possibly the ramp raised a hair when I tightened the allen screw the first time.

Whatever the reason, even with ultra thin vinyl I now have clearance. It isn't much, but it gets the job done. The VTA adjuster works quite well. I have the adjuster about 3 turns off the bottom, so there is alot of adjustability left in the set up. The range is greater on both ends of the spectrum than what I need. I can get the arm too low and lose sound quality, or too high and have the same results. So it works.

The cartridge height does contribute to the problem. Actually its a convergence of several issues. But cartridge height really is a major one. However, the Accuphase AC-1 sounds extremely good, and I have no desire to replace it. Since I now got everything working properly, its going to stay.

Thanks for everyones input! I appreciate it. Fortunately I have gotten everything to work properly. This is quite a nice turntable, especially for the modest amount of cash that I have into it.

Regards
Mister Pig

[Wayner]

There is a set screw adjustment for that. Look closer.

Wayner 

[toobluvr]

.........

This is quite a nice turntable, especially for the modest amount of cash that I have into it.

That's why I still have mine since 1997!   By far the longest I've owned any piece of audio gear!

 

[Mister Pig]

There is a set screw adjustment for that. Look closer.

Wayner 

Yes Wayne I know there is a set screw adjustment for the cue ramp height. I saw it when I first looked to adjust the tone arm. That was the adjustment range I had referenced in my first post.

The amount of clearance I now have is extremely small. With a thin record I can verify it by aiming a flashlight from behind the tonearm and seeing light pass through. Without additional light, these old peepers of mine could miss it.

But its enough to get the job done. I don't think I will find any thinner vinyl than the pop/rock stuff that was put out in the late 80's. OK so, they have those ones that came in cereal boxes that are paper thin, but I won't be playing them.

I probably had a bit of a burr in the shaft of the cue ramp and it hung up a bit. Either that or it walked up a bit when I tightened the set screw. Either way, it had appeared to have been down all the way on the shaft. I was just able to squeeze a bit more adjustment out of it.

 I also raked the position of the ramp inwards, so that the tonearm in still on the portion that is level and does not rise, when it approaches the end of the record. The Rega cue ramp is not perfectly level, but has a slight rise at the end of it.

Listened all evening to vinyl, and it never gave me a problem. So it appears to be solved.

Regards
Mister Pig

[toobluvr]

 I also raked the position of the ramp inwards, so that the tonearm in still on the portion that is level and does not rise, when it approaches the end of the record. The Rega cue ramp is not perfectly level, but has a slight rise at the end of it.

I had the same exact problem (rise at end of cue ramp) with my Kuzma arm.  I gently pressed on the end of the ramp and flattened it a bit.  It is a thin strip of metal extending out from the cue pillar, so it was pliable and easy to manipulate / bend.  Worked like a charm.  I think I actually read the fix in the owner's manual....or maybe an audio board. 

Don't know if your Rega is built the same way, but give it a shot.