Daedalus Ulysses imaging!

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 5757 times.

Daedalus Audio

  • Facilitator
  • Posts: 862
    • http://www.daedalusaudio.com
Daedalus Ulysses imaging!
« on: 13 Dec 2009, 08:44 pm »
last week I was in NC to visit my son, he just completed his training on the F-15 Strike Eagle, and I drove across the state to pay a visit to Frank. Frank has a pair of Ulysses and has helped out at a couple of the RMAF shows.  I was very impressed by the sound in his room, I wish I had half as good sound at the last show! he has spent a lot of time tweeking the room and speaker position and it really pays off, the imaging was the best I've ever heard. instrument placement and tonality in every field was perfectly defined and natural.

Bill Baker

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 4837
  • Musica Bella Audio - Custom Design and Manufacturi
    • Musica Bella Audio
Re: Daedalus Ulysses imaging!
« Reply #1 on: 13 Dec 2009, 08:48 pm »
Very nice looking arrangement. Like the room a lot. How far back is Frank's seating position as it looks like about 12 feet between speakers?

Daedalus Audio

  • Facilitator
  • Posts: 862
    • http://www.daedalusaudio.com
Re: Daedalus Ulysses imaging!
« Reply #2 on: 13 Dec 2009, 09:23 pm »
I think his room is 20' x 23'. I'd say about 13ft between the speakers and the seating is about 12' back.

jimdgoulding

Re: Daedalus Ulysses imaging!
« Reply #3 on: 16 Dec 2009, 06:11 am »
Frank, my man.  Bet you $5 that if you pull your D's out 1 to 1.5x their depth more from the wall behind them and 2 to 2.5x their width each more closely together and put your listening seat within 1 to 2' of the plane of whatever the new distance between your speaks turns out to be, you will hasten to pay me . . but turn out the lights and listen so I can be sure.  Think you will not be taking advantage of your room size?  It'll get bigger.  Better yet, maybe it'll disappear.  Adjust, and play with, toe-in.  My pleasure.

Facilitator- Sir, this is made with the best of intentions.  I have high regard for your work.
« Last Edit: 16 Dec 2009, 12:46 pm by jimdgoulding »

Pez

  • Industry Contributor
  • Posts: 3386
  • The dispenser of Truth.
Re: Daedalus Ulysses imaging!
« Reply #4 on: 16 Dec 2009, 06:25 am »
The sound in the Daedalus room was far from bad, especially for a show. I have heard far worse in systems costing 10X more in home systems. But I gotta say it looks like Frank has a helluva set up, but I don't see any tubes... Surely it's just the picture right???  :duh: :)

jazdoc

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 87
Re: Daedalus Ulysses imaging!
« Reply #5 on: 16 Dec 2009, 06:56 pm »
Frank,

Beautiful looking set-up.  I'll bet the Pass Labs amps are awesome with the Daedalus.  What kind of music do you enjoy?

In the photo, it looks like the bases are unspiked and there is no resonance control between the maple plate and speaker base.  In my room, spiking the stand improved coupling to the floor with improved imaging and low frequency articulation.  Adding EquaRack footers between the maple plate and base improved things further.

Best regards,

Mark Z



poseidonsvoice

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 3641
  • Science is not a democracy - Earl Geddes
    • 2 channel/7 channel setup
Re: Daedalus Ulysses imaging!
« Reply #6 on: 16 Dec 2009, 07:50 pm »
Did you say these speakers were in North Carolina? If so, is Frank open to have others come and give them a listen?

Thanks,
Anand.

figcon

Re: Daedalus Ulysses imaging!
« Reply #7 on: 16 Dec 2009, 10:10 pm »
Hi Guys.

I am not on the forum as much as I would like, but I thought I might address some of the comments made regarding my set up.

First off, it was such a pleasure to have Lou grace me with his presence here. He is a great speaker designer, a true gentleman and a friend. He makes one hell of a cabinet, too.

I have many holes in my carpet from obsessing about the perfect speaker position in this room for these speakers. It has taken a long time to get perfect, but I'm pretty sure I've got it now. Inches make a difference in speaker placement too :icon_lol:

First off, the speaker bases are spiked to the floor and there are rubber pads, much like the rubber/cork/rubber pads advertised on Audiogon, but larger and w/o the cork, between the bases and the stands, which I keep mistakenly calling slabs. I believe this is what Lou now supplies with the speakers as long as the stands and bases are ordered.

The room is 23' long x 18' wide. The ceiling is 8 1/2 feet at the front and 9 feet at the rear. I have a lot of absorption on the side and front walls and a lot of reflective devices on the back wall. The first side wall reflection of both speakers are absorbed by 2" thick fiberglass panels.

The front of the speakers are about 74" from the back wall. Any closer to the back wall shortens the depth of field. Any further out into the room gets them too close to me for the spectacular imaging I am able to get. They are only about 30" in from the side wall and as long as the first side wall is absorbed, which is the case here, the soudstage is wide, natural and very well defined, without any loss of center fill. I have them canted inwards, so that they are very nearly pointing right at me, but pointing at my ears, as opposed to say, my nose. Maybe because of the offset tweeters, pointing them right at me or close to it, does not make them too bright. Conversely, pointing this way, duplicates the way live music sounds to me.  They are 13 1/5 apart from one another, measured from the center of the cabinets and about 14" away from me. Jim's suggestions might work in some rooms, and I do appreciate his input, but not in mine and not with this MTM design. I'm pretty sure if he heard what I hear, he would like it  a lot.

As for tubes, I swap equipment around some, but there are some tubes in the system. The Pass XA100.5's, Marantz SA7S1 and Herron VTPH-2, which has 5 tubes, stay in the system 100% of the time. All are great sounding stereo components, in my opinion. I also mostly use a ModWright LS36.5/PS36.5 preamp which also have tubes. No tubes, but my analog is a SOTA Cosmos Series  IV, Origin Live Illustrious arm and Miyajima Shilabe MC cartridge. The cartridge is run unloaded into the Herron. Am important part of the sound quality I get is due to the Dynamic Design cables that Lou introduced me to. These are fabulous cables. I also use a 20 amp Furman Balanced Power Conditioner and a few other tweaks.

I listen to all types of music from rock to classical, but it is mostly rock, jazz and classical. I do not have any Opera, although that is mostly because I wouldn't know what to buy.

If anybody in North Carolina would like to visit for a listen, they are welcome. Please contact Lou and he will put you in touch with me.

Frank

 


jazdoc

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 87
Re: Daedalus Ulysses imaging!
« Reply #8 on: 17 Dec 2009, 12:15 am »
Thanks for the additional info...hope it didn't come off as pretentious, just trying to be helpful

Your experience with Ulysses set-up mirrors mine...it takes a little more effort than some speakers but the results are definitely worth the effort.

Enjoy the wonderful room and great system!

jimdgoulding

Re: Daedalus Ulysses imaging!
« Reply #9 on: 17 Dec 2009, 12:49 am »
Frank-ee.  Your speaks are out further than it appeared to me.  And your seat must be, too.  What I was trying to suggest was getting your triangle out further and closer together, something I have recently done.  My experience is that my stage has expanded well beyond my triangle and deeper than the perimeters of my room would suggest to the eye.  It's like there is nothing they can't reproduce spatially.  Bass got more even, too.

I just asked my wife if she would like to go NC.  I'll be workin on her.  See you, maybe.  Jim

figcon

Re: Daedalus Ulysses imaging!
« Reply #10 on: 17 Dec 2009, 01:33 am »
Hey Mark.

I didn't take what you said as pretentious at all. I use the rubber between the base and stand to make the look of the speaker a bit more seamless. It works and visually is pleasing to me.
 
Yes, the speakers are very sensitive to set up and if you don't sit up straight in your listening chair like a good boy, even that can keep them from sounding their best too. Like most truly great loudspeakers, they are very sensitive to proper set up, but worth it once this is done.

Jim...You are welcome here anytime.

Frank

david12

Re: Daedalus Ulysses imaging!
« Reply #11 on: 17 Dec 2009, 05:18 pm »
 A very nice looking system and room. Perhaps we should start a thread about room tidyness. All you colonials seem to be incredibly tidy. I would'nt dare show pictures of my system after the Da-RMa's arrive, it is soo cluttered.  Perhaps it's down to you guys having big houses, compared with the UK.

  It is the first time I have seen the Ulysses with Subs. Do you like Organ music or heavy metal Figcom? 

  If you are looking for opera, that is my particular vice. There are some good threads on the opera circle about starting a collection. I am struggling to find operas I have'nt got already.

figcon

Re: Daedalus Ulysses imaging!
« Reply #12 on: 18 Dec 2009, 03:47 pm »
I have to get better at this. I thought I had replied yesterday, but it isn't here, so I will try again.

David....I've been called a lot of things, but never a colonial before. I'll wear that funny looking hat proudly.

Yes, many of us are blessed with large rooms, some tidy and some not, and this benefits the Ulysses speakers and just about all the others I've tried. Even in this large space, the bass is excellent and the 12" Acoustic Suspension subs pictured are only doing 27Hz and below, courtesy of a Marchand electronic crossover. Ulysses are run full range. I listen to organ and rock, but usually not heavy metal. 

It may not be common knowledge yet, but Lou will be making the first pair of Ulysses Bass Modules for me, which I do not believe are named yet, to make a great speaker, even better. Bascially, the Bass Modules will have a crossover that will limit Ulysses to 80Hz and the Bass modules will do everything below. It will make the system large and more costly, but it will free up Ulysses to do what they do even better, while providing subterreanean bass. I'm shooting from the hip here, but I believe these will also work with the Da-RMa speakers.  In terms of scale, the system will probably compete with anything out there at any cost and in terms of sound, at least in my opinion, will most likely sound better.



 


Daedalus Audio

  • Facilitator
  • Posts: 862
    • http://www.daedalusaudio.com
Re: Daedalus Ulysses imaging!
« Reply #13 on: 20 Dec 2009, 08:32 pm »

  It is the first time I have seen the Ulysses with Subs. Do you like Organ music or heavy metal Figcom? 

David, as Frank notes he is using the sub only for very low frequencies, they seem to be more for the purpose of 'loading' the room than extending bass.  when there I requested he turn the level down on the subs so they were not masking any bass definition. These are good, fast subs but it renewed my enthusiasm for the design of the matching bass module so as to move more air, extend the bass and not only maintain bass definition but hopefully improve on it. btw, as an offshoot of the Ulysses bass module design I will be designing a passive sub that can be used with any of my speakers.

I'm curious to hear more comments and details of how Daedalus speakers are positioned in  various rooms. I think this can benefit our little community.

thanks,
Lou

Daedalus Audio

  • Facilitator
  • Posts: 862
    • http://www.daedalusaudio.com
Re: Daedalus Ulysses imaging!
« Reply #14 on: 20 Dec 2009, 09:46 pm »

 An important part of the sound quality I get is due to the Dynamic Design cables that Lou introduced me to. These are fabulous cables. I also use a 20 amp Furman Balanced Power Conditioner and a few other tweaks.

I listen to all types of music from rock to classical, but it is mostly rock, jazz and classical. I do not have any Opera, although that is mostly because I wouldn't know what to buy.

If anybody in North Carolina would like to visit for a listen, they are welcome. Please contact Lou and he will put you in touch with me.

Frank

I'd like to hear more discussion of what cables people are using with the Daedalus speakers and their merits. generally people choose these speakers in part for their neutral, musical and dynamic qualities. this sets certain parameters for the choice of cables, and I'm always interested in what helps to create synergy in a system.  to date my favorites with these speakers are Dynamic Design, Bolder Cables and for less $ the Empirical Design cables. I'd love to hear what others are using and why.
thanks,
Lou


jimdgoulding

Re: Daedalus Ulysses imaging!
« Reply #15 on: 21 Dec 2009, 09:00 pm »

  It is the first time I have seen the Ulysses with Subs. Do you like Organ music or heavy metal Figcom? 

David, as Frank notes he is using the sub only for very low frequencies, they seem to be more for the purpose of 'loading' the room than extending bass.  when there I requested he turn the level down on the subs so they were not masking any bass definition. These are good, fast subs but it renewed my enthusiasm for the design of the matching bass module so as to move more air, extend the bass and not only maintain bass definition but hopefully improve on it. btw, as an offshoot of the Ulysses bass module design I will be designing a passive sub that can be used with any of my speakers.

I'm curious to hear more comments and details of how Daedalus speakers are positioned in  various rooms. I think this can benefit our little community.

thanks,
Lou
Loading the room.  Oh yeah.

mountain1

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 33
Re: Daedalus Ulysses imaging!
« Reply #16 on: 22 Dec 2009, 07:11 pm »
After trying about six different speaker cables with my DA 1.1s, I settled on Audio Note's Lexus, which were about $800 for a two meter length.  I found that price had little to do with the sound quality of the cables in my system.  There is no subsitute for listening and comparing cables over at least a week.  The Audio Notes were much better to my ears.