More on the Turntable AC Motor Controller

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hagtech

More on the Turntable AC Motor Controller
« on: 10 Dec 2009, 01:42 am »
I've been stuck for awhile, trying to ponder some class-d scheme for a power output stage, plus trying to keep cost way down.  Sort of a losing battle.  It is ending up like a "me-too" product.

And so a brain fart today got me thinking about a tubed version.  Played around with the concept for awhile trying various configurations and finally got something to work using off-the-shelf parts that aren't too expensive.  Once again, the classically beautiful PA-10 output stage comes to the rescue!

The design (draft #1) uses a 269EX power transformer for both power supply and output stage coupling.  I use the 190-0-190 taps driven by a 6080 triode pair.  The 120-0-120 output (normally used as primary) offers a nice 2.5 reduction in output impedance to about 200 ohms.  Hey, with your typical 3W TT motor that amounts to 5Vac drop.



I tap the unused 6.3V winding on the output for optional ac feedback.  This would provide a little more control and accuracy of output voltage, plus reduce the output impedance.  Interesting, the combined mu of the 6080 and output step-down works out to roughly 1.0 gain.  I added some local resistive feedback so that can be tuned too.  The driver stage is a 12AX7 pair running at 0.5mA each as a PP driving a 124E interstage tranny (such a tranny is required for PA-10 topology).

Pretty simple.  Power levels not that high.  Two tubes, three trannys (no choke in supply).  It should provide roughly 100Vac output for 1Vac input at 60Hz.  Stability can be set using rolloff cap across 12AX7 plates and in the series feedback (like any other opamp).

Not sure what the limitations are yet, but it should drive a 5W to 10W motor pretty handily.  Standing current of the 6080 is only 25mA each, at 170V (-90V grid).  Output voltage should go up to about 130Vac before clipping.  Depends on delivered power.  Output stage remains in total class-A.  The PP stages are designed to eliminate as much even order harmonics as possible. 

Now to buy parts and build up an amplifier!

jh

jameshuls

Re: More on the Turntable AC Motor Controller
« Reply #1 on: 11 Dec 2009, 05:06 pm »
Nice work!

rollypolly

Re: More on the Turntable AC Motor Controller
« Reply #2 on: 14 Dec 2009, 07:11 pm »
Jim,

Here's an interesting article on the Fairchild 412-4 that used a tube electronic drive to control the Papst motor.




Cheers!
Rolly

hagtech

Re: More on the Turntable AC Motor Controller
« Reply #3 on: 15 Dec 2009, 07:17 am »
I wasn't even born yet!  Wonder what them output tubes are...

jh

rollypolly

Re: More on the Turntable AC Motor Controller
« Reply #4 on: 15 Dec 2009, 01:48 pm »
Hmmm... seems like the above images I posted got compressed. Anyway, I've posted the original high resolution images, about 1 MB each, on ImageShack. Just follow this link: http://img196.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=fair412edscand.jpg

Cheers!
Rolly

Berndt

Re: More on the Turntable AC Motor Controller
« Reply #5 on: 15 Dec 2009, 03:05 pm »
Nice!

hagtech

Re: More on the Turntable AC Motor Controller
« Reply #6 on: 22 Dec 2009, 08:50 am »
Some photos of progress.  Or maybe not.



Built up a chassis with the tube amplifier.  In my haste, I neglected to consider the primary inductance of the interstage tranny.  It wasn't high enough to be driven by a pair of 12ax7.  Worked great at 500Hz, but it wouldn't go low in frequency without distorting.  A 12au7 did pretty well.  I tested the tranny separately, and it likes a drive impedance of less than 5k at 60Hz.  1k was really good.

The bottom view is how it is now.  I bypassed the 12ax7 and threw in a pair of 6688 strapped as triodes.  Ok, this actually worked.  I got a pretty decent sinewave at 60Hz.  Some other problems, though.  The power supply rail drooped a bit, and the output voltage was limited to about 110Vac.  And that's with no load.  The design doesn't have enough margin.  I had been expecting to get to 128Vac.  Too many losses in various places.

So I'm not happy with the performance.  Maybe I need more stages and apply feedback.  Maybe I use a 156T interstage tranny.  Have to think about this for awhile.  Maybe I try something else.  Maybe I go back to a class-D amp...

jh

vinylkid58

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 35
Re: More on the Turntable AC Motor Controller
« Reply #7 on: 4 Jan 2010, 07:37 am »
Here's an interesting article on the Fairchild 412-4 that used a tube electronic drive to control the Papst motor.

That is really cool. Dig the PP 25DQ6 output tubes running class B2.

Thanks for posting.
Jeff