Poll

Do you pay attention to reviews? How much influence do they have & where do you look?

Webzines
0 (0%)
Print magazines
1 (3.6%)
Word of mouth
5 (17.9%)
I don't read reviews
1 (3.6%)
I don't trust reviews
2 (7.1%)
I make assumptions
1 (3.6%)
Make up my own mind based on technical facts
1 (3.6%)
I ask the vendor/manufacturer questions
1 (3.6%)
Options 1+2+3
15 (53.6%)
Options 4+6+3
1 (3.6%)
Options 6+8
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 28

Reviews: How important are they to you?

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oneinthepipe

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Re: Reviews: How important are they to you?
« Reply #20 on: 9 Dec 2009, 09:24 pm »
I remember the OLD Absolute Sound (HP days) when a product would be passed around to a number of people to get their opinion. An often lively discussion would ensue, sometimes running for a few issues.

The (old) Absolute Sound was a 5"X8" or 6"X9" booklet, I think.  There wasn't any advertising.  It was published quarterly and cost about $5.00 an issue, IIRC.  $5.00 was a sum of money in those days.  The reviews were a lot of fun to read.  I took those reviews seriously.

macrojack

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Re: Reviews: How important are they to you?
« Reply #21 on: 9 Dec 2009, 09:26 pm »
The massage shapes the message.

Jeff - I didn't name anyone in my comments and I didn't give you a thought. Your response was quite intense given those facts. Did I make you uncomfortable in some way?

In my (know it all) opinion, you cannot consider amateur opinions in the same way you consider the opinions of those who are being paid. And why the hell do I need the benefit of someone whose listening skills are better than mine. Are they going to come over and listen for me every day?

Think about this: If the whole damn audio industry shut down while I'm typing this, how bad would that be? Could you live happily ever after with the system you have now? Would that cause unbearable suffering? Would other aspects of your life suffer? Would you just redirect your obsession? Would you seek the help you need?

Every time I read a thread here or on Audiogon, there are warnings, admonishments, and advice stating that you should not trust hearing the gear in a showroom or at a show -- you must hear it in your own system and your own room. If that is true, how the hell does reading about how it sounds in a stranger's room on his ever-changing system benefit a shopper or move the process along. There are way too many unexamined assumptions being ridden to the bank in this silly game.

TONEPUB

Re: Reviews: How important are they to you?
« Reply #22 on: 9 Dec 2009, 10:22 pm »
The massage shapes the message.

Jeff - I didn't name anyone in my comments and I didn't give you a thought. Your response was quite intense given those facts. Did I make you uncomfortable in some way?


No, not really, but some days the flak is heavier than others...


In my (know it all) opinion, you cannot consider amateur opinions in the same way you consider the opinions of those who are being paid. And why the hell do I need the benefit of someone whose listening skills are better than mine. Are they going to come over and listen for me every day?


Again, I don't think you really NEED them, but again, hopefully we can help.


Think about this: If the whole damn audio industry shut down while I'm typing this, how bad would that be? Could you live happily ever after with the system you have now? Would that cause unbearable suffering? Would other aspects of your life suffer? Would you just redirect your obsession? Would you seek the help you need?



I'd just make TONEAudio an all music magazine.  We're only 40% hifi gear now, so it wouldn't be tough to make the switch.  I could live very happily with the system I have now, it's quite spectacular.  I'd probably sell system 2 and 3 because if I wasn't doing it for a living I wouldn't need those other pieces of gear as reference components any more.  Audio and music has always been a huge part of my life, so nothing would really change.  I'd keep buying as much music as I do now, but could stop buying gear tomorrow.  I could buy a nice used Porsche though with the dough from the other systems I wouldn't need or maybe go on a vacation, that would be fun!


Every time I read a thread here or on Audiogon, there are warnings, admonishments, and advice stating that you should not trust hearing the gear in a showroom or at a show -- you must hear it in your own system and your own room. If that is true, how the hell does reading about how it sounds in a stranger's room on his ever-changing system benefit a shopper or move the process along. There are way too many unexamined assumptions being ridden to the bank in this silly game.



I understand that perspective.  However, where I think we can shed some insight is to features and functionality of a piece and if in some cases how well it works with other products.  Much like what was mentioned earlier on this thread, when we get a set of speakers in for review, it gets tried with at least the eight different amplifiers I own as reference components and often we'll have a second or even sometimes a third opinion on how something sounds.  Often this depends on how big and heavy the piece is.  Always great to get a component in a different system with someone having different musical taste, because again that helps the reader.  We do the same thing with amplifiers, we'll try them with everything from Magenepans and MartinLogans (which are both notoriously hard to drive), the other reference speakers here and a combination of whatever else is in for review.  If we find out that speaker X doesn't really match up well with tubes, we let you know.  If we find out that amplifier Y, even though it's rated 400 watts per channel, just won't push a pair of Magnepans, we let you know that too.

I'd say that speakers are much more critical to hear in your room than anything else.  And unfortunately, you can't take a cartridge home and that's become a very important and expensive part of your system.


One of the things that we do that is fundamentally different from Stereophile and TAS (at least in my opinion) is that I feel those guys are still standing on their soapbox trying to tell you who makes the best power ranger.  I really don't care about that.  I have an excellent reference system and I own all my gear, so I'm not dependent on sending the stuff back every three months.  Which again makes it hard to evaluate anything if your system changes all the time...   I've also demanded that all of my reviewers own at least the core of their system and they do.

Next time you bump into your favorite reviewer at a show, ask them how much of their system they OWN.  Love him or hate him, I know Mikey Fremer owns his stuff and there are a couple of others but not many.  But I really feel it's critical so that you can make somewhat of an objective call on a piece of gear.

My goal will always be to help my readers find the gear they want.  Hopefully we can at least help you narrow down the short list of what you are shopping for.  And if we can't, hopefully we turned you on to a good record to buy, or worst case, the cartoon made you laugh.  I can't do any more than that, but we always keep trying....



iGrant

Re: Reviews: How important are they to you?
« Reply #23 on: 13 Dec 2009, 04:00 pm »
Very important to me as it is kind of the first feedback we get on a product that confirms (hopefully) what we are hearing, almost everyone around you prior to the review is doing slaps on the back, great job, etc. I feel sorry for those that don't use this as part of their process for evaluating gear and that only have a short shelf life between the next MK 5000 version. A manufacturer/distributor still has to market the review to make it stand out among the hundreds of reviews coming out monthly.

One day I will be doing a review of the reviewers I have dealt with, should be fun.

If you are purchasing gear, talk to a dealer or distributor or manufacturer, get an in-home audition if reasonable terms. You really can't tell if you are adding single components or tweeks until it is in your system.

When I was making music, I read every flipping review, different world, making over listening. I think listening reviews are there to confirm or deny what you are hearing, it is your ears and they are all unique. A review should bring requests for auditions or more info, if it brings sales without questions then there is something really wrong.

Cheers,
Ian

Ericus Rex

Re: Reviews: How important are they to you?
« Reply #24 on: 13 Dec 2009, 06:01 pm »
This is a great discussion!

My 2 cents:  I don't trust anyone I don't personally know or at least know their tastes.  We all have different ears and have different perspectives of what 'great sound' is.  I've heard enough systems to know that Mr. X's idea of great sound does nothing for me and vice-versa.  How then do I know that MegaGreat amp stunningly reviewed by Jo Schmo will fit my definition of stunning?  The only way is home audition.  Add up- or down-stream components into the mix and a review will basically tell you nothing.  I agree with the above statement regarding "ever-changing reference" systems.  It seems that description no longer means a system the reviewer is quite familiar with to which he/she compares a new component.  It unfortunately now just means 'expensive system'.  How can someone nail down the sound of a component when their 'reference system' is an amorphous, unstable rig?
I wait for a product to prove itself before I buy.  My friends' opinions are important, since I'm usually quite familiar with their systems and tastes.  Proven long-term reliability is also very important to me.  Something reviews just can't comment on in the short time spent with a component.  I've come to the conclusion that mags like Stereophile aren't really in the business of telling it like it is, they are in the business of keeping you excited about the Newest and Greatest Product on the planet.  You spend your money, they get the advertising and subscriptions and everyone's happy.  Right?

No offense tonepub.  I'm sure there are exceptions to my dim perspective on published reviews.  I really wouldn't know for sure though since I don't read them.