Resistors

NagysAudio · « **Reply #20 on:** 11 Mar 2010, 01:03 am »

Carbon resistors should be avoided at all costs, considering how cheap metal film resistors are, no one should still be using carbon. Metal oxide should also be avoided. The best resistors are metal film 1%, like the Vishays. If you need a high power non-inductive resistor, use Mills. The most important resistor in the entire amplifier is ALWAYS the negative feedback resistor (this is where you can use the Nude Z Foil Vishays). If your amp doesn't have negative feedback, then it's a very simple and primitive design and changing resistors probably won't matter anyways.

doug s. · « **Reply #21 on:** 11 Mar 2010, 02:05 am »

hey nagy, are you yust trolling for a fight, or are you trying to reduce your business?

doug s.

NagysAudio · « **Reply #22 on:** 11 Mar 2010, 02:15 am »

Just giving good advice regarding resistors, why would I be trolling?

pjchappy · « **Reply #23 on:** 11 Mar 2010, 02:16 am »

Let's keep it clean, folks.

Paul

doug s. · « **Reply #24 on:** 11 Mar 2010, 03:30 am »

why would you be trolling? i dunno. but many folks like zero feedback amps and carbon resistors. based upon your prior comments about goldmund amps, speakers, and rel subs, i honestly thought you may simply be wanting to stir up something. or maybe you yust simply have extremely strong opinions that sometimes come out sounding a bit condescending to me - terms like "primitive", and "awoided at all costs, and "changing resistors probably won't matter anyways..." if i am mistaken, then accept my apologies.

doug s.

Tyson · « **Reply #25 on:** 11 Mar 2010, 03:55 am »

There's a difference between Carbon resistors and Carbon Film resistors. Carbon films are good, plain Carbon is not.

NagysAudio · « **Reply #26 on:** 11 Mar 2010, 04:40 pm »

Carbon film is better than carbon, but nowhear near as good as metal film. At Newark, carbon film resistors cost as much as metal film, there's no reason to chose carbon film. Metal film resistors are more stable and are significantly less noisy. Riken resistors are extremely expensive and I suspect that all they are is a re-brand of a number of $0.15 carbon film resistor manufacturers that they are selling at 20-30 times the cost.

Dan Banquer · « **Reply #27 on:** 11 Mar 2010, 05:36 pm »

The major reason for metal film resistors in audio band circuits is that they have far lower noise than carbon film resistors. If one prefers the higher noise levels than by all means use carbon.
Regards;
Dan Banquer

rollo · « **Reply #28 on:** 11 Mar 2010, 07:08 pm »

Well did some experimenting with resistors. Takman [carbon film] and Vishay z foil [ metal film.
They were used as phono loading resistors. Noise floor was undicernable to my ears. Tone was NOT. The Vishay was thin sounding against the Takman. Just no meat on the bone. Now the clarity or openess of the Vishay was slightly more evident than with the Takman but IMO a non factor. The richness and organic sound of the carbon resistor was much more to my liking.
Like everything else in our hobby it is choice of the listener. One can measure all day long but in the end the "SOUND" is what sells it. If it was all about meaurements then buy a Japenese SS Receiver with great specs and horrible sound. A little of both s the ticket.

charles

doug s. · « **Reply #29 on:** 11 Mar 2010, 10:28 pm »

what rollo/charles said - couldn't have said it better myself.

i tried holco metal resisters in my modded art di/o - nice upgrade. riken ohms were nicer still, w/no loss of detail whatsoever.

doug s.

Pez · « **Reply #30 on:** 12 Mar 2010, 05:28 am »

Agreed, I think you can follow measurements, or you can follow your ears. Occasionally the two mesh, but more often than not they clash. Neither is more "right", but ultimately it is my belief that your measuring equipment doesn't seem to mind which one sounds better or worse.

Tyson · « **Reply #31 on:** 12 Mar 2010, 06:13 am »

Why would anyone actually listen to a piece of audio gear, when measurement tools are so much more precise?

etcarroll · « **Reply #32 on:** 12 Mar 2010, 12:58 pm »

^^^^ That's a show!

rollo · « **Reply #33 on:** 14 Mar 2010, 06:37 pm »

Quote from: Tyson on 12 Mar 2010, 06:13 am

Why would anyone actually listen to a piece of audio gear, when measurement tools are so much more precise?

Ask Wilson, EAR, Manly, VTL and so many others. In the end after all the measurements the "sound" is wht sells the gear, not the measurements. Sansui anyone .000017 distortion ? Halcro ?

charles

NagysAudio · « **Reply #34 on:** 14 Mar 2010, 11:36 pm »

You just have to know what and how to measure. Some manufacturers list only certain measurements that were done under specific conditions to make their equipment look good. So these measurements will look spectacular on paper, but not during a listening session. They are meaningless. Real engineers will always rely on proper measurements and if something was measured properly and it measured great, it will always sound great. No other way about it.

jtwrace · « **Reply #35 on:** 14 Mar 2010, 11:38 pm »

Quote from: NagysAudio on 14 Mar 2010, 11:36 pm

You just have to know what and how to measure. Some manufacturers list only certain measurements that were done under specific conditions to make their equipment look good. So these measurements will look spectacular on paper, but not during a listening session. They are meaningless. Real engineers will always rely on proper measurements and if something was measured properly and it measured great, it will always sound great. No other way about it.

How about some useful info on measurements then? How to measure resistors and capacitors.

NagysAudio · « **Reply #36 on:** 15 Mar 2010, 12:17 am »

Just get a decent Tektronix oscilloscope and you'll be ready to measure. Resistors are easy, you can measure noise floor and resistance drift in relation to heat. Any kind of carbon resistors are a poor choice for example. But it's not just about measuring individual parts, it's the design of the entire project as a whole.

CharleyW · « **Reply #37 on:** 16 Mar 2010, 02:29 am »

Well, actually guys ...

If the resistor is a grid-stopper in a tube circuit, you want to use a carbon composition resistor. NOT carbon film. Carbon comp(osition).

The reason is, carbon comp's are totally non-inductive - and that's what you want as a grid-stopper. Sort of like "horses for courses".

Bill Baker · « **Reply #38 on:** 16 Mar 2010, 04:11 am »

Quote

if something was measured properly and it measured great, it will always sound great. No other way about it.

Not sure I agree with this. There are a lot of products out there that measure great but do not sound good. It only means the circuit is operating properly and should sound good "in theory". Measurements don't always tell the whole story. This is not to say measurements are not important (they are very important) but one cannot tell or base the sound of any given audio component on measurements alone. It doesn't matter if it's a speaker, receiver, amp/preamp, tube or solid state.

doug s. · « **Reply #39 on:** 16 Mar 2010, 02:04 pm »

Quote from: Response Audio on 16 Mar 2010, 04:11 am

Not sure I agree with this. There are a lot of products out there that measure great but do not sound good. It only means the circuit is operating properly and should sound good "in theory". Measurements don't always tell the whole story. This is not to say measurements are not important (they are very important) but one cannot tell or base the sound of any given audio component on measurements alone. It doesn't matter if it's a speaker, receiver, amp/preamp, tube or solid state.

+1. in fact, i am sure i do not agree w/nagy on this.

doug s.