[audiojerry]

Nathan paid me a visit Saturday evening and brought along a few of his goodies including his SE-9, his Shanling cd player, some of his diy power cords and interconnects, and some of his AMAZING music. I guess Nathan wanted to find out how his little 9 wpc amp could drive the monstrous 801, and, since he lives in an apartment, he wanted the chance to hear some of his music at serious concussion inducing spl's from the Odyssey monoblocks.  

WARNING: DO NOT TRY THIS MUSIC IF YOU HAVE ANY HEALTH PROBLEMS OR ARE PREGNANT.   Also, if you are mentally or emotionally unstable, you should avoid prolonged contact with Nathan's music.  

Nathan allowed me to sample some of his stuff. It included artists such as
Tourniquet, Kyuss (nice cymbals), and Cathedral, and Memory Garden. If you know these artists, you can ignore this warning as you are already beyond help.    

The experience for me was very moving, in more ways than one. I must admit that Nathan's music left a definite impression on me, and I could still hear it pounding in my brain the next day. We had it playing kind of loud, and my wife managed to hear it upstairs, something she is rarely able to do with my music.

Unfortunately, it had a very disturbing effect on her, and later that evening she told me she was concerned for my well being. She feared that Nathan was trying to indoctrinate me into some type of devil worshipping cult. Nathan assurred me that this was not the case, and that one of the groups we listened to, Tourniquet, I believe, was Christian based. Right Nathan - so how come 3 days later I am still fighting the urge to want to bludgeon the next person I see?

The really scary part is that Nathan told me that I only heard some of his milder stuff, and he'd be happy to let me sample the his more potent stuff. Oh my!

I'm just teasing Nathan, but in all honesty, I hope I never have to listen to that stuff again, but I wouldn't be surprised Nathan felt the same about my stuff. When it comes to evaluating components and pursuing high resolution audio gear, I just don't see how it can make any difference if you listen to this type of music. A lot of it is deliberately badly distorted in the recording process, vocalists are literally screaming into the mike, and a lot of it appears to be badly recorded period, although I will admit that Kyuss seemed to be done well.

Another issue I have with this music is that I believe it is meant to be heard at head-banging spl, and anyone exposing themselves to it for more than a few minutes at a time risks serious hearing damage. My wife is a teacher for the deaf and works with audiologists, and she was also seriously concerned about damage to my hearing that evening. Nathan, it's good that you live in an apartment and use the SP-9 because it is protecting you from too much adverse affects.

Getting on to the SP-9, I now know first hand why Nathan gave it such high praise in his review. It is a very musical and abundantly enjoyable amplifier, exemplifying all the qualities that makes listening to music through tubes so special. I was amazed it was able to drive the 801's at all, an obvious mismatch of components, but the combination actually sounded pretty nice, provided you kept the volume at a reasonably low level, yet it was still loud enough to enjoy. Sure, the bass was soft and rolled off, and soft clipping occurred with demanding passages, but I could picture this amp being an ideal setup with the right high efficiency speakers listening to Dianna Krall (yes Nathan, Dianna Krall), and some jazz trios or quartets - I'm sure it would be very sweet.      

I also had the chance to see and hear his Shanling, and man, it looks sexier in person than in the photos. It is a work of art and real eye candy. Nathan, I just thought of a great amp from Italy to pair with the Shanling: the Pathos Twin Towers.
http://www.naspec.co.jp/pathos/pathos-images/twintowers-300214.jpg
We did some listening to his diy interconnects and compared them to my ZuCable. Nathan doesn't believe there was any noteworthy difference, while I thought there was, but that discussion should be kept as a separate debate.  
       
Bottom line though, it was an fun evening, and I enjoyed having Nathan over. I hope he had a good dose of high output amplification to fill the void that he can't get in his apartment.

[nathanm]

Holy smokes, would you listen to this old fart?"If it's too loud you're too old!" HAR! HAR!  Trust me folks, it wasn't that loud!  I swear!  Jerry's exaggerating, just like he exaggerates those things he believes he hears when you swap the cables carrying the 0s and 1s to the DAC. You should've heard him whining about his poor ears afterwards!    What a big crybaby! "Melancholy Emperor" is one hellaciously heavy doom metal tune, obviously the Billy Anderson 'artistic overdrive' tonality was too much for mister Sensitive Ears here to handle! MUWHAHAHA!!!

Well obviously I picked the wrong stuff to impress this elitist jazz snob with! I wish I would've had more time to choose stuff for good "hifi" content. Yep, the Tourniquet tune was very dry, but I played it cause it was a cool track with lots of energy.  There is, almost by necessity, a fundamental difference in the way amplified rock music is recorded verses the way acoustic music is recorded.  I can understand full well why Jerry likes the stuff he's played for me  (to be fair I've only heard a tiny fraction), because they are wonderful recordings.  Lots of presence and roomy ambience.  I like that sound a lot, but when a man wants the sound of a Marshall cab he wants it big and in-your-face, not nice and polite!  I wish like hell there was more ambience and feel to metal recordings, but the fact is it's hard to come by.  Doesn't take away from my enjoyment of the music though. By it's nature, distorted guitar is naturally compressed by the amplifier, so there really isn't any dynamic contrast.  Drums on the other hand...  All too often those are overly compressed too.  Sometimes they even have the kit set up with MIDI triggers that play samples.  Evil, yes, but that's what SOME producers\engineers have been known to do.

But this kind of music is like a motion picture; you are taking the parts and manipulating it into a whole.  By definition it is not "high fidelity" as J. Gordon Holt described it.  It's entirely possible that rock music would not be as popular if they plunked down a single mic in a room and recorded the band playing.  For one, the vocalist would be drowned out.  I'd love to hear someone try it, though.  Can you imagine if musicians were forced to actually mix themselves and create a coherent sound of their own instead of each loud-as-hell piece being 'distilled' into a manageable form?!  The mind boggles...

What the fock does this have to do with the SE-9?  Nothing yet.  Now Jerry initially said he didn't have any "compatable" speakers.  "Feh!" says I!  You got an amp?  Got a speaker?  Plug the darn things in and try it!  Well, indeed the mere 9 watts of pentode power satisfyingly drove those big  monsters.  Didn't quite have that bass punch as the aluminum gargantuans, and the very highest frequencies seemed softened, but to me there wasn't anything that said "Oh god, turn it off!"  For 400 bucks I can't complain. And it looks cool, which is my big thing.  My eyes are more keen than my ears.  Must be from listening to all that Devil Music all these years right Jerry?   Hell, I wish I did have more sensitive ears; then I'd be worried about which overpriced interconnect I was going to buy, cause anything less would be UNacceptable!  I mean, how could I enjoy the tunes with that inferior $300 cable!?

Okay, razzing the hell of of Jerry aside, the point is that Norh's little amp can play on something besides 100db efficient horns or what have you.  Just don't expect miracles if you want it real loud or have a big room.  I wished we could've done some meaningful A\B comparsions but as we all know, switchboxes are the devil's work.  <--- there he is! Run! To Jerry's credit he did correctly identify which was the tube output on the Shanling, although he thought the Solid State output had better sound.  (a 50\50 chance though! Ha!)  And to Shanling's credit it's good that SOMEONE hears a difference!  I just wish you didn't have to be such a keen listener like audiojerry to hear it!   If you look close you will notice that his earlobes are actually starting to turn gold.  I'm not kidding!  I wish the Shanling had an Apple\Watermelon difference, not a Kiwi\Strawberry difference! Heh! But I don't care, it looks cool and chicks dig it.

Unfortunately, it had a very disturbing effect on her, and later that evening she told me she was concerned for my well being. She feared that Nathan was trying to indoctrinate me into some type of devil worshipping cult. Nathan assurred me that this was not the case, and that one of the groups we listened to, Tourniquet, I believe, was Christian based. Right Nathan - so how come 3 days later I am still fighting the urge to want to bludgeon the next person I see?

I dunno, maybe because you're upset that you spent $10,000 on a 200 watt tube amp that consumes 600 watts of electricity (at IDLE!) when you could've had 90% of the performance for $9,600 less?!

Another thing, we're already part of a cult; the cult that causes otherwise intelligent people to spend so goddamn much money on fuckin' audio equipment!!!  We may not be dreaming about riding on a comet, but we sure as hell are dreaming about some kind of intangible holy grail of audio bliss!  Come on folks, you know it's true.  Why does this board even exist?  Why do we keep buying more and more stuff even though we've already got plenty?  It's a cult that's why!  Obey your master, master! (a little metallica reference there )

I would love to hear the SE-9 on really senstive speakers though.  I do very much like the Omega's as I was made aware of thanks to AC, but last night I realized I could convert my old Fischers into full range drivers.  I think I'm gonna take out the old drivers, MDF up the sides and mount a FE206 8" or two on the side.  Worth a try.  I am tending to side with the low watt\high sensitivity crowd. At least it's cheaper than the battleship-sized SS high watt\low efficiency approach.  I still don't expect to get the monster low end from full range drivers though.

So cheers to Michael Barnes and Bowers & Wilkins for creating a match made in heaven, only 19 years apart! And I hope everyone will pray for Jerry's soul as I slowly begin to take it from him!  

[LordCloud]

I love the fact that I am not the only audiophile that has not only Miles Davis and Clifford Jordan in his collection, but Portishead, A Perfect Circle, Marilyn Manson, N.W.A, and Korn just to name a few.  The fact that I'm a 26 year old black male makes my eclectic choice of listening material strange to most people I know.  But if you love music you love music and you don't shut yourself in the corner that sterotypers like to put you in.

[Brad]

Metal to Bluegrass to Blues to Jazz to Rock to Classical.
 

Gotta love it!
"Controlling faster"

[MediaSeth]

I also like a lot of music that sounds like it was recorded in a garage or basement.  Sometimes the poor sound is a part of the charm and soul of the music.  I think that's why "garage rock" is having a little bit of a comeback, even with new mono recordings.
I would love to hear audiophile releases of live punk shows from the 70's.  I think it would be an improvement over CD.  I've seen some stuff on 180g vinyl, but how about SACD?  If those old Stones recordings sound better on SACD.... What about the Velvet Underground?
High end audio components should also help listeners get closer to the true sound of a live event or original master in all of its distorted glory.  When I listen to one of these bands, I want it to sound the way it did when I saw them at that dark and dingy club.  If the original event was skillfully recorded and not distored, that's great too. I just want to hear the original event.  Well.. I'm actually not a big fan of arena/stadium sound.  I'd rather hear that one recorded straight from the "board."
I'm already dreaming of Sonic Youth SACD's.
So don't feel left out of the hi-fi world because of your musical tastes.
Nathan, perhaps we ought to start a headbanger/punk/new-waver/rock hi-fi club?  How many speakers can really keep up with those fast-basslines right?

[Jay S]

I've been getting more into jazz lately... but I have recently been blasting the Rolling Stones, Guns n Roses, and Madonna's Die Another Day single.  Man, if you've got a good system with lots of juice, use it!!!     As my system gets better I can play at increasing deafening volumes without fatigue (I know, you still have to be careful with your ears).  

Its pretty surprising what kinds of speakers a low powered tube amp can drive.  While its no Nautilus 801, my Avinci 1's are probably something like 85 db/watt efficient (due to the Revelator woofer), and my Radii 300B tube integrated (8 stonkin watts per channel!) plays them quite loudly in my bedroom and, produces pretty good bass.  Someday, though, I should try the Avinci's in my main system and see how they respond to the eAR amp.