Excited about my BCD-1 Purchase :):)

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Robert D

Re: Excited about my BCD-1 Purchase :):)
« Reply #20 on: 11 Dec 2009, 10:42 pm »

I was referring to the Digital out puts for your new BCD-1
And in what manner to connect to your BDA-1

Here is my Cable set up I was asked a few weeks ago on how they are beening used
Any Questions let me know
Top Shelf button Unit Bryston BDA-1 connected Balanced XLR to BP26 input Balance 1

Top Shelf Middle Unit Bryston BP26 out  Balanced XLR Right to Bryston 4Bsst2 Left
and  Right Channel of 4Bsst2

Same for the left Channel of the Bp26 out  Balanced XLR Left to Bryston 4Bsst2 Left and  Right Channel of 4Bsst2.

Top Shelf Top Unit Byston BCD-1 connected Balanced XLR to BP26 input Balance 2
As well I?m using The Digital out puts of The BCD-1 going to BDA-1
1- AES-EBU going to BDA-1
1-Digital Coax SPDIF BNC to BDA-1

The RCA Cables are to Connect my Tuner L/R to BP26
The power Cables are the originals that came along with my Bryston Gear.

My Equipment is all plugged into my New RM 20

Robert

Moon Doggy

Re: Excited about my BCD-1 Purchase :):)
« Reply #21 on: 11 Dec 2009, 11:52 pm »

I was referring to the Digital out puts for your new BCD-1
And in what manner to connect to your BDA-1


Robert

I don't think Volks has a BDA-1, Robert.

 You can get the best sound running balanced out from the BCD to the pre-amp. And then use the BDA-1 (if you have one to go the hi Res route) to get hi Res files from your computer source using a Lynx AES-16 card.

If you run the BCD-1 into the BDA-1 you are separating the master clock (in the transport) from the DAC in the BDA-1 and you will introduce a lot more jitter into the digital to analog conversion. The master clock works the best when it is right next to the DAC as it is in the BCD.


VOLKS

Re: Excited about my BCD-1 Purchase :):)
« Reply #22 on: 12 Dec 2009, 12:01 am »
Correct Moon Doggy..........i dont have a BDA 1........i hear so many diff views on it.............that it adds more jitter and so forth...........ive also heard that it improves the sound of the BCD1 hooked to the BDA1...........to me."On paper" at least...........it just gives me the ability to upsample...............but does that mean it sounds better/improved?.....guess i will have to hear it for myself.

Robert D

Re: Excited about my BCD-1 Purchase :):)
« Reply #23 on: 12 Dec 2009, 12:17 am »
Moon Doggy

I guess I was not Clear

I have the Best of Both worlds.
If you take a look at my Pic of my BCD-1 on the 1st page of this subject
Im balanced out from My BP26 to balanced 2 on my Bp26
As Well Digital out Puts from BCD-1 to BDA-1 I have 2 SPDIF BNC as well AES-EBU

BDA-1 is connected balanced 1 on my Bp26

I like to have the best of both worlds.
Im ready for what ever the the High rez audio as to offer

Robert

Moon Doggy

Re: Excited about my BCD-1 Purchase :):)
« Reply #24 on: 12 Dec 2009, 12:23 am »
Hi Volks,

The BCD and the BDA are the exact same unit except that the BCD has a stereo DAC I believe. They sound exactly the same so you are just introducing extra jitter via the digital connection.  The Bryston BDA is the one of the best DAC if you want (as James says) to go hi res and get files from a computer.

So the two box will only sound as good at best and might actually sound worse.

Designer Charles Hansen writes in "Jitter and Audio Performance":

"The reason for this is quite simple, the standard S/PDIF (Sony/Philips Digital Interface Format) digital connection used with two-box solutions is flawed, unavoidably and needlessly introducing jitter into the audio playback system.
A low-jitter master audio clock is essential for attaining high performance levels of digital audio reproduction. But that low jitter only matters at one critical point, at the D/A chip itself. Jitter-induced timing errors create artifacts that audibly degrade the music signal. Therefore a well-designed one-box disc player places a fixed-frequency master audio clock right next to the D/A chip for the best possible performance.
    In contrast, a two-box system splits the system into a disc transport box and a D/A converter box. The two are normally connected with the industry-standard S/PDIF connection which places the master audio clock in the transport box, where it is mixed together with synchronization codes and the audio data and transmitted to the D/A converter box. The D/A converter box must then attempt to recover the critical master audio clock from this jumble of signals for delivery to the D/A chip itself."

Regards,

James

Robert D

Re: Excited about my BCD-1 Purchase :):)
« Reply #25 on: 12 Dec 2009, 12:24 am »
I switch back and fourth

The BCD-1 connected Via XLRs or Balanced as they call it to BP26..  Thats the only way to Go !

After a Glass or Two of Red wine the BDA-1 sounds Great !
I prefer the sound of the AES-EBU over the SPDIF BNC. Thats my ears.

Robert





Moon Doggy

Re: Excited about my BCD-1 Purchase :):)
« Reply #26 on: 12 Dec 2009, 12:27 am »
I switch back and fourth

The BCD-1 connected Via XLRs or Balanced as they call it to BP26..  Thats the only way to Go !

After a Glass or Two of Red wine the BDA-1 sounds Great !
I prefer the sound of the AES-EBU over the SPDIF BNC. Thats my ears.

Robert

Thanks for clearing that up, Robert!

BrystonFan

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Re: Excited about my BCD-1 Purchase :):)
« Reply #27 on: 12 Dec 2009, 02:05 am »
Congrats on your BCD-1 VOLKS !

What is the best hookup of the BCD-1 if your using an SP2 ?
I can't go XLR from BCD-1 to SP2, I'm running Bryston RCAs ?

Stu Pitt

Re: Excited about my BCD-1 Purchase :):)
« Reply #28 on: 12 Dec 2009, 04:10 am »
A few guys say that adding a BDA-1 to a BCD-1 will add jitter, which I agree on, however... doesn't the BDA-1 reclock the signal, thus basically eliminating jitter anyway?  From that standpoint, I don't think jitter is/would be the issue.

I think the BDA-1 has adjustable upsampling rates and defeatable upsampling, whereas the BCD-1 doesn't.  I also think the BDA-1 has 2 DAC chips, whereas the BCD-1 has one.   

James Tanner

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Re: Excited about my BCD-1 Purchase :):)
« Reply #29 on: 12 Dec 2009, 01:05 pm »
Hi Stu,

I think this jitter thing is one of the areas that is the most misunderstood.  You can not get rid of jitter - you can only reduce it a bit.  To reduce it you are 'playing' with the bitstream which in my opinion is maybe not the best option (I think the more you fiddle the more you can screw it up). The jitter numbers on the CD player are at very low levels because you can clock the 'DAC' directly to a 'KNOWN' bitstream from the 'Drive' through a 'Master Clock' and reduce jitter substantially. By the way the closer the DAC is to the Master Clock the better. In an outboard DAC you have to re-clock and re-sample so generally there is potential for more jitter because the incoming bitstream is 'unknown'.

So in my opinion if you want to achieve the highest quality playback with the least amount of jitter then start with a low jitter source device. In the BDA-1 DAC the best playback 'currently' is achieved with a quality 'high-resolution' (44.1/16Bit to 192K/24Bit) soundcard (with low jitter and low latency) in a computer based system fed into the BDA-1's BNC/SPDIF or AES-EBU input. Inputs such as Optical generally will exhibit higher jitter numbers than SPDIF.

There are products on the market that will allow USB or Optical to output SPDIF and try to reduce jitter but the Bryston DAC was not aimed at that market segment. In the BDA-1 synchronous upsampling does not result in a reduced jitter figure. I am not an expert on this but asynchronous upsampling can be used to try and reduce jitter but it just masks input-side jitter from appearing in the output signal, by converting time-domain errors into amplitude domain errors which will not show up as jitter components per-se. The BDA-1 upsamples the actual input signal data; it doesn't synthesize a new data set derived from the input signal, as do DACs with asynchronous upsampling. The BDA-1 is an attempt to provide the best possible performance if you have the quality sound card and use the appropriate inputs. For instance, the USB input on the BDA-1 eliminates one digital conversion by using I2S (not spdif) at it's input which is the NATIVE bitstream and then we run it through a 'SYNCHONOUS' (less digital math to screw things up) sampler- if you engage the up-sample button on the front of the BDA-1.

Also recognize that many tests have been done with jitter indicating what is actually heard by experienced listeners are much higher numbers (in the order of 10 times as much) than most good quality digital gear is putting out. So in the BDA-1 DAC we found that the quality and integrity of the power supplies, separate digital and analog power supplies, separate ground planes for digital and analog sections, discrete class A analog circuits etc far outweigh the slight increase in jitter numbers comparing the CD Player with the BDA-1 DAC.

I recognize that many people have to make their decisions on what DAC they will use based on their source gear (CD Player drive, Laptop with USB or optical, Streaming devices etc.) but if you want state of the art playback at this point in time then the computer based high-resolution soundcard connected appropriately to the BDA-1 is the direction to head. The beauty of the Bryston BDA-1 DAC is that it gives you a central point into which you can plug in up to 8 digital sources and achieve the highest performance available from the device feeding it.

Wow this got away from me -- sorry did not mean for this to be this lengthy!

james

VOLKS

Re: Excited about my BCD-1 Purchase :):)
« Reply #30 on: 12 Dec 2009, 02:43 pm »
Thnk You James..............You certainly cleared it up for me.......i dont feel i need the BDA-1............Since i bought the BCD-1...i have been playing it and Dancing and "Jitterbugging" all nite long :)..........and thats all that matters now :)

Robert D

Re: Excited about my BCD-1 Purchase :):)
« Reply #31 on: 12 Dec 2009, 04:38 pm »
Mp

Enjoy it

Robert

alexone

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Re: Excited about my BCD-1 Purchase :):)
« Reply #32 on: 12 Dec 2009, 08:35 pm »
Hi Stu,

I think this jitter thing is one of the areas that is the most misunderstood.  You can not get rid of jitter - you can only reduce it a bit.  To reduce it you are 'playing' with the bitstream which in my opinion is maybe not the best option (I think the more you fiddle the more you can screw it up). The jitter numbers on the CD player are at very low levels because you can clock the 'DAC' directly to a 'KNOWN' bitstream from the 'Drive' through a 'Master Clock' and reduce jitter substantially. By the way the closer the DAC is to the Master Clock the better. In an outboard DAC you have to re-clock and re-sample so generally there is potential for more jitter because the incoming bitstream is 'unknown'.

So in my opinion if you want to achieve the highest quality playback with the least amount of jitter then start with a low jitter source device. In the BDA-1 DAC the best playback 'currently' is achieved with a quality 'high-resolution' (44.1/16Bit to 192K/24Bit) soundcard (with low jitter and low latency) in a computer based system fed into the BDA-1's BNC/SPDIF or AES-EBU input. Inputs such as Optical generally will exhibit higher jitter numbers than SPDIF.

There are products on the market that will allow USB or Optical to output SPDIF and try to reduce jitter but the Bryston DAC was not aimed at that market segment. In the BDA-1 synchronous upsampling does not result in a reduced jitter figure. I am not an expert on this but asynchronous upsampling can be used to try and reduce jitter but it just masks input-side jitter from appearing in the output signal, by converting time-domain errors into amplitude domain errors which will not show up as jitter components per-se. The BDA-1 upsamples the actual input signal data; it doesn't synthesize a new data set derived from the input signal, as do DACs with asynchronous upsampling. The BDA-1 is an attempt to provide the best possible performance if you have the quality sound card and use the appropriate inputs. For instance, the USB input on the BDA-1 eliminates one digital conversion by using I2S (not spdif) at it's input which is the NATIVE bitstream and then we run it through a 'SYNCHONOUS' (less digital math to screw things up) sampler- if you engage the up-sample button on the front of the BDA-1.

Also recognize that many tests have been done with jitter indicating what is actually heard by experienced listeners are much higher numbers (in the order of 10 times as much) than most good quality digital gear is putting out. So in the BDA-1 DAC we found that the quality and integrity of the power supplies, separate digital and analog power supplies, separate ground planes for digital and analog sections, discrete class A analog circuits etc far outweigh the slight increase in jitter numbers comparing the CD Player with the BDA-1 DAC.

I recognize that many people have to make their decisions on what DAC they will use based on their source gear (CD Player drive, Laptop with USB or optical, Streaming devices etc.) but if you want state of the art playback at this point in time then the computer based high-resolution soundcard connected appropriately to the BDA-1 is the direction to head. The beauty of the Bryston BDA-1 DAC is that it gives you a central point into which you can plug in up to 8 digital sources and achieve the highest performance available from the device feeding it.

Wow this got away from me -- sorry did not mean for this to be this lengthy!

james


James,

question: if the BCD-1 is connected with the BDA-1 via coax for example...will the outputted analog signal be lower in jitter than the analog out signal of the BCD-1?


al.

James Tanner

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Re: Excited about my BCD-1 Purchase :):)
« Reply #33 on: 12 Dec 2009, 09:30 pm »
Hi Al,

The digital out from the BCD1 into the BDA-1 would still be resampled and reclocked by the BDA-1 so theoretically the jitter will be slightly more. Which proves my point I guess because even with a slight increase in jitter some still like the BCD-1 through the BDA-1 better than the BCD-1 on its own?

james

Stu Pitt

Re: Excited about my BCD-1 Purchase :):)
« Reply #34 on: 12 Dec 2009, 10:23 pm »
Thanks James.  It wasn't too long; it got to the point.

alexone

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Re: Excited about my BCD-1 Purchase :):)
« Reply #35 on: 13 Dec 2009, 03:14 am »
Hi Al,

The digital out from the BCD1 into the BDA-1 would still be resampled and reclocked by the BDA-1 so theoretically the jitter will be slightly more. Which proves my point I guess because even with a slight increase in jitter some still like the BCD-1 through the BDA-1 better than the BCD-1 on its own?

james


so at least this story ends up like many hifi-stories...the personal taste of the sound is the way to go.

al.

Robert D

Re: Excited about my BCD-1 Purchase :):)
« Reply #36 on: 13 Dec 2009, 12:37 pm »
Al

Are you using the digital out puts of the BCD-1 to your BDA-1


Robert

alexone

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Re: Excited about my BCD-1 Purchase :):)
« Reply #37 on: 13 Dec 2009, 04:24 pm »
Al

Are you using the digital out puts of the BCD-1 to your BDA-1


Robert



hi, Robert!

yes, i do. but to be honest...i can't hear the difference between the different digital connections. but i prefer the coax and the xlr given the general opinion that the toslink is of "lower" quality.
at the moment i am still looking for a new pair of speakers. if i should make a decision (within the next few years :lol:) then i might be able to tell the difference?!


al.

Robert D

Re: Excited about my BCD-1 Purchase :):)
« Reply #38 on: 13 Dec 2009, 10:30 pm »
Al
Thank for the feed back Buddy
 
Do you leave the up sample on all the time on the BDA-1

Are you connected to your BP26 Balanced or RCA from BDA as well for the BCD-1

Let me know

Robert


vegasdave

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Re: Excited about my BCD-1 Purchase :):)
« Reply #39 on: 14 Dec 2009, 06:07 am »
Hi Al,

The digital out from the BCD1 into the BDA-1 would still be resampled and reclocked by the BDA-1 so theoretically the jitter will be slightly more. Which proves my point I guess because even with a slight increase in jitter some still like the BCD-1 through the BDA-1 better than the BCD-1 on its own?

james


How about from another manufacturer's player to the BDA-1?