[Wayner]

The only issue here is how to get otherwise reasonable and intelligent people to buy into such a complete pile of crap.  I wish I knew.

Larry, that is very negative  There are different levels of performance and I've been witness to it. The LP, being a very large disc capacitor, is hard to neutralize, I agree. But I do have some LPs that are static neutral and others (usually new ones) that are static clowns. Eventually they all calm down. I'd like to speed up the process. Maybe we can figure it out.

Wayner

[S Clark]

Well, it sure isn't very scientific, but several times I have proved the effectiveness of my old Zerostat gun.  CRT televisions used to pick up large amounts of static that would attract the hair on the back of my arm.  Using the gun 3-4 times at 12 inches would reduce the attraction so that no hair stood up.  It may not be the optimal way to de-stat something, but it does work. Certainly not snake oil.

[Wind Chaser]

One of the reasons most people who have them don't know if they work is because they use them all the time.  Try putting the damn thing away for six months and see what happens.  

When I was into analogue, I lived in a very dry climate, especially during the winter.  It was strictly through ritual or force of habit that when a record was taken out of the sleeve, it received a few zaps.  (And yes, I did read the instructions and use it accordingly.)  Even so, right from the beginning, I wasn't sure if it was making any real difference.

Vinyl is noisy by nature, even the more expensive pressings, Japanese, MFL, OPUS, Sheffield etc.  I was also using a "strain gauge" pick up system John Iverson of Electro Research.  One of the claims was that this method as opposed to conventional phono cartridges (moving coils, magnetic, etc) was that it was supposed to be considerably less noisy.  Nevertheless, as soon as the stylus touched the groove, the noise was apparent. 

It is certainly inconvenient vis a vis digital playback of any kind but, like cooking real food or conducting the Japanese tea ceremony, it has a reward and a relevance if you can take the time and enjoy the process.

I don't cook, but I eat real food; lots of raw fruit and veggies.  Its quick, convenient and very, very nutritional, much more so than "cooked" food. 

[lcrim]

Wayner:
The fact that you suggest trying the gun after listening is the only logical point in this discussion.  Whether or not this gun can put a static charge on a PVC platter is quite a large stretch, but for the sake of argument, lets say it can.  How many cycles around before that charge will be removed by the action of stylus running around in the track.  The paper industry has this issue when paper is wound onto a large roll and they ground the roll to remove the charge.
Any pops or crackles you hear during playback is the stylus striking a small particle.  Clean records sound better.  The illusion is maintained.  You don't hear static.  Very often , if I may also illustrate my experience, clean records that sound that way are staticy when I remove them but I didn't hear any evidence during playback.  Clean records sound better.  Static has no effect on playback.  If you think that the little gun removes a static charge then use it after playback.  Even then how long will it last to discourage dust buildup on the record?

[vinyl_guy]

The only issue here is how to get otherwise reasonable and intelligent people to buy into such a complete pile of crap.  I wish I knew.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion and the right to state it, but why do you fell it is necessary to put others down who don't agree with you or whose experiences are different than yours? If you haven't heard a difference, fine--don't buy one. I have heard a difference on meticulously cleaned LPs and I am satisfied that using a de-stat device makes a difference.

Peace,

Laura

[lcrim]

Vinyl_lady:
Sorry

[vinyl_guy]

Vinyl_lady:
Sorry

Thanks lcrim,

I appreciate it. all is forgiven (it was before my last posting). One of the many things I like about AC is the emphasis on being a circle of friends who share a passion for music and audio gear and the many different and diverse ways of enjoying our hobby. We also have a lot of common and diverse interests in many non-audio subjects as is evident from the pub. Friends sometimes have conflicting beliefs and opinions, some strongly held, which is OK--in fact, more than OK--it's good. How boring life would be if we all were the same and thought the same.

 BTW, I took a look at your main system--nice 

thanks again,

Laura

[Wayner]

Larry, I think dragging a stylus across a record makes static, not reduces it. I am also thinking that at least my cleaning process is backwards as well. Do we put our dishes and silverware away dirty and then clean them when we sit down to eat? Well, I think that is exactly what many of us are doing with our records. We should be cleaning them after we play them, as well as zap them with the anti-static gun, before we put them away. That way, we are putting a clean record back into the sleeve, that has had the static removed (somewhat) and allowed to drain (static wise) until the next time it is played, which by the way, will be clean and static neutral. I'm changing my process now.

Wayner

[Ericus Rex]

I started a fight!   sweet 

I thought at least SOME of the pops I hear were caused by static discharge during playback.  Is this not the case?  Lcrim suggests that the pops are caused by dust/dirt and only dust/dirt.  What is the truth?

I can totally understand that those living in more humid environments would not get the same level of static buildup as those of us living in drier climates.  Therefore those persons would not benefit at all from any type of static release.  I however, live in a very dry climate in wintertime and do experience more pops from familiar records during the winter months.  I think a static discharge system of some sort would benefit me...if the pops are actually static at all.

Wayner, is your method as simple as putting a bead of water on your brush and then the record?  Do you use deionized water?  What about drying afterward?  All info appreciated!

Thanks for all the posts!!!!!!!!!

[twitch54]

Wayner:
The fact that you suggest trying the gun after listening is the only logical point in this discussion.  Whether or not this gun can put a static charge on a PVC platter is quite a large stretch, but for the sake of argument, lets say it can.  How many cycles around before that charge will be removed by the action of stylus running around in the track.  The paper industry has this issue when paper is wound onto a large roll and they ground the roll to remove the charge.
Any pops or crackles you hear during playback is the stylus striking a small particle.  Clean records sound better.  The illusion is maintained.  You don't hear static.  Very often , if I may also illustrate my experience, clean records that sound that way are staticy when I remove them but I didn't hear any evidence during playback.  Clean records sound better.  Static has no effect on playback.  If you think that the little gun removes a static charge then use it after playback.  Even then how long will it last to discourage dust buildup on the record?

Larry your close but not quite there....let me explain... I startout with the static gun, which does allow small dust particles, etc to be 'released' and then follow it up with my metal handled carbon fibre / chamois brush for a 'clean sweep' without any further induced static build-up.

I don't know how long you've been spinning vinyl but in my forty five plus years this method has proven quite succesfull with many a 'digital devote' impressed with the extremely quiet background !

[jsaliga]

I thought about buying an antistat gun for a while but eventually decided against it.  I just haven't found the notion that static buildup is the source of the Rice Krispies sound on vinyl to be a very persuasive theory.  I can understand and appreciate how others might feel differently, however. 

I have many records, both new and old, where the paper inner sleeve will cling strongly to the vinyl as it is being removed.  If there is any lint, hair, or dust on my clothing then it will leap to the vinyl if I hold it too close to my body (in which case I have to clean the record again).  These records are very quiet on playback.  No snap, no crackle, and no pop.  Surface noise is very low to non-existent (meaning below the threshold of hearing from my seating distance).  That is not to say that I don't have records with the Rice Krispies sound.  I most certainly do.  But it is my opinion that static buildup is not the cause.  Minute defects and blemishes in the pressing are at fault.

I also have found that the cartridge you are using, and more specifically its stylus profile, plays a considerable role in how much snap, crackle, pop, and surface noise you hear.  My Benz Copper Reference S is a wonderful cartridge that tracks true and delivers excellent sound.  But the Dynascan S stylus is more susceptible to minor defects and blemishes in the vinyl groove walls.  In contrast the Ortofon Jubilee, with its nude shibata stylus, has a lower noise floor and minor vinyl defects are not as pronounced as they are with the Benz.  The Jubliee is not immune to these pressing artifacts, but I find that they don't pollute the sound nearly as much as they do with the Benz.  Sonically, I prefer the Jubilee as well.

--Jerome

[Wayner]

I think the "rice krispies sound is from over heated vinyl at pressing time, causing micro-bubbles in the vinyl. I have had LPs that have hit a static pop, and the next time played, the pop was not there. I also believe that the static holds particles that the stylus hits and produces yet a different sound. So to sum that up, I think we hear 3 different defects, the first being a physical cause via bubbles in the vinyl, scratches and dings, damage. Then we hear debris in the the grooves. And finally the static discharge pop. So, throw all of these kinds of sounds on top of the music to some varying degree and you have an orchestra of noise along with the music. 2 out of the 3 can be dealt with.

Wayner 

[doug s.]

I was taught long ago that the proper ay to use a Zerostat is to aim it at the record from a distance of maybe a foot and then pull the trigger very slowly. Once the trigger is pulled all the way in, aim the gun out into the room away from your record and release the trigger. I'm not so sure about efficacy either...

this is the way the mfr recommends, two or three times, rotating the record 1/3 or 1/2 the way around for each pull.  then follow up w/pulling the trigger w/the gun aimed out towards the room, then point it at the record player spindle & slowly release the trigger.  i never found it to quiet the playback, but i found it to help keep dust off the records.

all that said, the best results, imo are to use a dust sweeper w/a grounding strap - this keeps the record dust-free & staticifree whilst playing, which is the most important, imo - nothing to collect on the stylus while the record plays.  i use a keith monks record sweeper, nla new, but you can find similar iterations f/s new; here's the typical type; this one is f/s on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390117822114


ones f/s here for $20-$25:
http://www.sleevetown.com/turntable-accessories.shtml
http://www.esotericsound.com/access.htm
http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LG&Product_Code=ANTISTATARM&Category_Code=PE

doug s.

[rcag_ils]

I have a Zerostat gun for years, I think it works, when I used it and followed the instruction, the dust seemed to be easier to come off with the brush.

Then I read it somewhere that the energy that this types of guns emit could cause cancer, now I use it much lesser than before.

[Wayner]

Sitting in front of your computer screen causes cancer.

[Wind Chaser]

Everything gives you cancer.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5bsIwZkvWo