Which Omega?

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Jim W.

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Which Omega?
« on: 11 Jan 2004, 03:37 am »
I'm new and love the sound, but have only listened to the small Super 3 Standard (all that's available).  I liked them over the C&C Abbeys.  So, what's the best Omega speaker?  I'm not a big believer in the most expensive is always better.  My room size is 13' x 15' x 9'.  Also, the website is a bit confusing and I'd like to know which Omega is the newest (upgraded) most refined speaker?

Feel free to chime in about integrated amps and separates that mate well with Omegas (I like tubes).  Right now, the dealer I'm working with carries Antique Sound Labs only.  I need lots of guidance but I'm hooked on the sound.  I can honestly say that even after auditioning the Thiel CS 2.4, B&W 703, Revel F30, JM Labs, etc.  with pricey electronics.  Frankly, I was stunned when I heard the Omegas - didn't know about Fostex and Lowther drivers until a few weeks ago.  Awesome.  Finally, music and not a bunch of analytical notes that fatigue my ears after an hour.  No, maybe I'm not an expert, but my ears are my ears and I like what I like.

JLM

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Which Omega?
« Reply #1 on: 11 Jan 2004, 12:02 pm »
I've only heard the TS-1 and Super 3.  Both benefitted from tube amps.  The professional reviews listed on the Omega site pretty well catagorize and compare the      s.  Fostex builds good efficient drivers but haven't been able to overcome the laws of physics.  So the 3s, with the smaller FE127E driver will be faster, but less efficient than the 1s or 2s with larger drivers.  And that's what I've heard comparing the TS-1 and TS-3.  The TS-1 was warmer and slower, but for your room size you could (depending on taste and music) avoid a subwoofer.

I listen too much with raw analysis (so I don't care for drivers with whizzer cones, which some have called a mechanical crossover thereby making it a two way).  Therefore I'm a fan of the 3 series.  At the 2003 MAF I told Louis (a very pleasant young guy) that the Super 3 only needed a good sub to become a world class speaker.  But again with raw analysis I favor a single driver covering much of the range.  IMO this is more important as you listen in a more nearfield situation as would be the case in your room.

I think that your question can be answered by the observation that nearly all of Louis product development has been with the 3 series speakers based on the Fostex FE127E driver.

A very good alternative to the ASL amps is the Cayin TA-30.  Check out:

2baudio.com

Bill Baker

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Which Omega?
« Reply #2 on: 11 Jan 2004, 02:22 pm »
HI Jim,
  I will let Louis jump in for the "Latest" news on his speakers but I will try to help you out in terms of amplification.
 As JLM mentioned, the Omega speakers take very kindly to tubes and IMHO sound better with glowing glass. If your dealer has the ASL MG-15SI DT in stock, give this amp a listen switched into triode for 5 watts. More than enough power for these speakers and your room. For a bit more juice, you can switch this amp into Pentode for 15 watts. Experiment with it if you can. When auditioning the Omega speakers, make sure they are well broken in before coming to any serious conclusions. Especially the 3s with that 5" driver.

  You may also want to audition the new WAVE AV-20 DT if it is there. At 20 watts, it will drive a veriety of speakers for comparisons.

  Not knowing what else your dealers has in terms of amplification, I can anly recommend a good audition prior to making your decission. You can power these speakers with anything but I think you will find tubes to be best.

  Good luck and let us know how you make out.

Brad

Which Omega?
« Reply #3 on: 11 Jan 2004, 08:02 pm »
There's a pair of Super 3R's on audiogon right now.
The Super 3 is supposed to be smoother in the midrange than the TS-3s, and better in the bass.
I'm eager to see what Louis' new maple veneer looks like.

The Cayin is an excellent suggestion for an integrated.  Can be used in p/p or SE mode.  Paul at 2baudio is excellent to deal with.
The ASL is a good suggestion as well.  

I've had good results with simple CAT6 network cable used as speaker cable with the TS-3's.  Can't wait to hear the Supers.....

Let us know what you decide and how it works out  8)

Jim W.

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Super 3Rs
« Reply #4 on: 12 Jan 2004, 02:03 am »
Thanks for the head's-up about Audiogon.  However, I'd rather buy new given only a $150 drop in price.  By the time I got done with shipping and all, I'd be close to MSRP anyway.  Not to mention one of the speakers in the pictures at Audiogon looks like it has a damaged corner.  Could just be glare.  I'd like to listen to them first as well - so I'll ask my dealer to get a pair in stock.  Speaking of dealer, he's a nice guy and thanks to him I'm now somewhat wiser when it comes to sound quality and "value."  Actually, it was a post at Audiogon that led me to the whole single-driver thing to begin with.  I went today to make sure I was hooked, that is I listened again to Thiel CS2.4s and B&W 703s with all the goodies, and sure enough I cannot bring myself to drop that kind of cash after hearing the Omegas.  Just a different musical sound - quick, clean, tight, and detailed.  I listen at low to moderate levels anyway.  Long story short, my dealer sells ASL only and I feel a bit obligated to help his cause in establishing a niche.  So, unless there are any real flaws or reliability issues with ASL, I'll probably consider the product.  I'm new to this and my ears may not be able to distinguish between subtle differences between ASL and the Cayin.  But, if it's a dramatic difference in sound quality and reliability, please let me know.  Then, I'll ask my dealer to get the Cayin for me.  Loyalty, what a bit**.

Maybe he'll start some kind of upgrade program and I'll be able to trade in equipment once he starts to stock more brands.  Any thoughts on the ASL AQ1005 DTI, AQ1010 DTI, and Leyla 845?  Or, does sinking money upstream not make sense given the cost of the speakers?

Brad

Which Omega?
« Reply #5 on: 12 Jan 2004, 02:14 am »
Count yourself lucky to have a local dealer for both Omega and ASL.

The Super 3's will be very revealing of both the source and the amplification, so feed them well.

ASL makes a bunch of amps that will suit the Omegas.  You'll have to see which 'flavor' of tube you like the most.   I would think 2a3's would match well.   Then you can get into changing out the stock tubes for some NOS......

Are you going to run a subwoofer with the Super 3's?

Bill Baker

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Which Omega?
« Reply #6 on: 12 Jan 2004, 03:27 am »
Hi Jim,
  As far as the ASL gear. I think they have come a long way in quality. It would not concentrate so much on the price tag in relationship to sound quality but rather the sound that you like. The ASLs you mentioned would all work nicely but I would stay with minimum power. As I mentioned in my earlier post, I feel the Omega speakers sound best when being driven with 3-15 watts of tube power. I only mention the MG-SI15 above as this is a more affordable piece in the ASL line but does not mean it is not as much of a pleasure to listen to as compared with the higher $$ units.
  If your local dealer has a few of the ASL amps available to audition, do yourself a favor and take advantage of the situation. Listen to all you can and make your decission based on what sounds best to YOUR ears. You and the dealer will be wiser in the end (dealers love feedback).

  Good luck and do let us in on the results.

Jim W.

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Integrated amplifiers...
« Reply #7 on: 12 Jan 2004, 03:56 am »
Bill,

Thanks for the good feedback.  I mentioned the other units because I heard from somewhere that "choke filtered power supply" and "(0) NFB" was a good thing.  Any substance to the claim?  Worth paying for?  Will I hear the power supply being choked :lol: and (0) NFB?

Thanks,

Jim

JLM

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Which Omega?
« Reply #8 on: 12 Jan 2004, 01:49 pm »
Both chokes and zero negative feedback are generally considered good things, but application and execution must also be considered.  Let your ears be the final judge.

BTW the Super 3 has less midrange baffle step loss than the TS-3, but otherwise should sound the same.  Baffle step loss is simply the condition where the driver "sees" itself mounted on an infinitely big wall (baffle) and only having to fill space in front of the wall UNTIL the sound waves reach the edge of the front of the cabinet where it "sees" the space behind the front of the cabinet and now has to fill the entire space its in.  The wider baffle of the Super 3 lowers the frequency/effect at which that happens.  The 3 BPC takes care of any baffle step by adding an additional driver in the back to fill in the space behind the front baffle, while increasing the depth of soundstage, but needs more space behind the speaker in order to develop the deeper image and not be boomy.

Jim W.

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Super 3 BPC
« Reply #9 on: 12 Jan 2004, 03:26 pm »
JLM,

Do you think Omega makes the Super 3 BPC in the R version?  Also, concerning amplification, do the requirements change with two drivers?  And, if Omega (Louis[?] ever develops a subwoofer, one well matched to his products and worth buying, I'd likely consider it.  Does that change my amplifier requirements?  I expect I'd need some outputs or something.

While I'm at it, and since you've all been great in offering free advice (thank you), what about source?  I'll probably go with a CD player for now and invest in a turntable at a later date.

I know I keep pushing the envelope and asking for what's the "best" of this and the "best" of that  :? , and hopefully I've confined my search to a niche, but I just want to get it right the first time because: 1) I'm going to ask my dealer to get me what I want so I can hear it (some risk to him), and 2) I want to avoid upgrade fever while allowing some room for modest improvement (e.g., subwoofer, turntable, different tubes, etc.).

Hopefully, I'm going about this the right way.  My leather listening chair arrived over the weekend :D.  Hopefully I'll have some music soon, but there's no rush.  I'll work on the acoustics of the room for now.  It's empty and will be dedicated to listening.  Nothing in there but drywall and hardwood floors.  I'll need a large throw-rug with pad, some heavy drapes, and some panels for the first reflection points and front and back walls, I guess.  I'm sure the room is just as critical as the equipment, if not more so.

Thanks again,

Jim

Brad

Which Omega?
« Reply #10 on: 12 Jan 2004, 08:02 pm »
Jim,

I've seen Omega subwoofers (in matching finishes) on Audiogon, but haven't seen them on the Omega website.

The 3BPC may work with a wider variety of amps, as it can be wired at both 4 and 16 ohms.   4 is a better match for a Decware Zen - 16 will probably be a better match for most other SET's.


You are right about the room's importance.  8th nerve specializes in room treatments and has a circle here.  I'm sure they could offer some good advice and some cost offective treatments.

JLM

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Which Omega?
« Reply #11 on: 13 Jan 2004, 01:58 am »
Yes, there is a 3 BPCR, but keep in mind that the larger cabinet and second driver pushes the cost up ($1,099 for the 3 BPC).

Louis had advertised a sub to go with the TS-3 in a package deal, but haven't seen much on it in the last few months.  Recently I asked here what sub would go with the 3 series and Louis answered with the VBT subs (a very unique, fast, small sub).  However a powered VBT is roughly $1,300.

As bass notes obviously have a lot more energy than mids/highs, the use of a powered sub would remove the "heavy" lifting from your main amp.

As Brad mentioned you can run the 3 BPC in 4 ohm or 15 ohm and as a bipole or dipole modes.  In addition you can use just the front driver in 8 ohm configuration.

Response Audio/Music Hall is hard to beat for sources.  Music Hall offers well respected, reasonably priced turntable options.  Music Hall also offers the CD25 (a well built HDCD player), the SACD Maverick, and the Shanling T-100 CD player and T-200 SACD player (which are the hottest looking players you'll find).  Plus Respons Audio offers modifications for the CD25 and the Maverick.  Check out the professional reviews.  For prices ranging from $550 - $2,800 these players are currently the ones to beat, IMO.

I am soooo with you on getting it right the first time, mainly because I'm CHEAP.

moltosolo

Which Omega?
« Reply #12 on: 13 Jan 2004, 04:08 am »
I would recommand a Super 3(or 3R if your got the budget) if you have a small to medium room. It sounds very good with my microZOTL, and I think any decent low power tube gear will do just fine.

Jim W.

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Preamplifier and amplifier
« Reply #13 on: 16 Jan 2004, 03:08 am »
I'm thinking about the Super 3Rs, Super 3BPCRs, or the Grande 6Rs along with Eastern Electric MiniMax preamplifier and amplifier, as well as their tube HDCD player.  I'd have to travel to a lot of states to listen to different equipment, so I'm basing my selection on a ton of reading and feedback from folks that know much more than I do about this stuff.

Any thoughts?  You can see and read about the Eastern Electrics gear at www.eeaudio.com (I think you can ignore the download - cancel).

Jim

moltosolo

Which Omega?
« Reply #14 on: 17 Jan 2004, 05:14 am »
I have an interesting question.
Will two Super 3R back to back sound like a 3BPR?

JLM

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Which Omega?
« Reply #15 on: 17 Jan 2004, 04:22 pm »
2 back-to-back Super 3s should sound very close to a 3 BPC and likewise for the R versions.  Size/shape of the cabinets might change mid-bass response slightly and you'd probably want Louis to build the Supers with terminal plates on the sides so that the cabinets could be tight back to back.

This is a neat idea because:

1.) 4 Supers = 2 BPC in terms of cost, so this would make a more affordable upgrade path.

2.) I don't like the look of the BPC (looks bulky for the small driver.

moltosolo

Which Omega?
« Reply #16 on: 17 Jan 2004, 08:47 pm »
From the photos, the 3BPC is larger than 2 super 3. So I think maybe the 3BPC got a different sound than the Super3. Also if you like, you can put one Super 3 on top of the other one, and now you have a Super 3 line array... hehe, maybe this is too far.

By the way, I would recommand the SET OTL from Transcendent if you are comfortable with solder iron.
http://www.transcendentsound.com/single%20ended.htm

JLM

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Which Omega?
« Reply #17 on: 18 Jan 2004, 03:44 am »
I heard the Transcendent pre-amp last fall.  Many were impressed by it's hefty bass response and warmth.

Louis O

Which Omega?
« Reply #18 on: 19 Jan 2004, 02:12 pm »
Hi Moltosolo,

A Super 3BPC is pretty much the same as 2 Super 3s back to back. Each of the BPCs chambers are the exact same volume as the one super 3.

The extra wide baffle does help in reducing cancellations and interaction between both the front and rear drivers.

Hi Jim,

There are a lot choices out there right now and getting right the first time is very important. Many thanks for all the great posts too.

Bill at Response Audio is putting together some really fantastic amps and his CDP are great too.

I have stopped building the subs a while ago, but the sub I think is a fantastic bargain and match for the money is the Creative Sound 10" unit. At $599 it's a great deal and sounds very musical and the integration between the sub and the speakers is great. Can't go wrong with this one.
http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=CLARUSX!0

Thanks again and talk to you soon,
Louis