PC based EQ. . .what I have found. . .

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pjchappy

PC based EQ. . .what I have found. . .
« on: 6 Nov 2009, 05:44 pm »
I am currently (re) beginning my journey into room treatments and EQ.  I am slowly getting more and more back into this hobby after 3-years of spending my spare time (and then some. . .) playing guitar, writing songs, etc. as a hobby.

My system is completely PC based, which you can see below in my sig.

I have been looking into room treatments and even room measurements.  I will be able to take accurate measurements of my room early next week and will be getting some room treatments in about a month.  I will also be re-integrating a sub into my system then, too.

Well, over the last few weeks, I've also been trying to find some programs that can work with iTunes or Foobar to do some EQ.  I figured since I'm PC based, why do any EQ after it has gone through my DAC. . .or even before, adding another component, etc.

Last night, I stumbled upon some programs that can let you do just that. . . and they're pretty cool.

1.  You need Virtual Audio Cable ($30 for full access.  Can try it out for free, but you'll have a woman's voice reminding you every 30 seconds or so that it's a demo.)

This is a program that grabs the audio signal from ANY program that is processing audio.  It doesn't manipulate the signal at all.  Just allows access to it.

2.  You then need VST Host (Freeware.)

It took quite awhile for me to figure out how to run these together, but once I did, it's pretty easy.  For anyone interested who can't figure it out, I will posts some steps later.

Anyways, Virtual Audio Cable will take the audio signal and allow it to run through VST Host.  What VST Host allows you to do is add any VST effect into the signal chain.  A VST effect is typically used in music mixing / recording software to add effects, EQ, phase, compression, etc.  There are TONS of FREE VST effects out there.  So, last night, I simply added a parametric EQ I found.  Knowing some of my room nodes, etc., I briefly experimented with this with good results.  Not only can you add VST effects, but you can add multiples of the same effect. 

Now, you can save your settings in VST Host, but when you load it, it just has the effect(s) in the chain with their default settings.  You can save a setting of the effect, but you have to go into the effect and load it.  There may be a way to have it open up with the settings pulled up, but I haven't figured it out yet.  I also haven't spent much time on this, either.

Anyways, I'm looking forward to using Room EQ Wizard to get a response curve of my room from my listening position, then going from there.

Once I get my sub back up and running, I do plan on getting an outboard parametric EQ for that.  With my set-up, there isn't a way to control the sub separately.  I'm sure just EQing on the PC end in lower frequencies could help, but doing so will have some effect on the mains.  With an outboard, I will have much more flexibility and can deal with any phasing issues separately, too.

I haven't figured out yet how to work this combo with ASIO or WASAPI.  VST Host can work with ASIO, but in my very brief attempt, I couldn't get the combo of VST Host and Virtual Audio Cable to work with it.  However, the cool thing about Virtual Audio Cable is that you can set up signal chains.  Again, VAC doesn't manipulate the signal, it just allows access to it.  I figure I can set up another "cable."  The set-up would look like this:  "Cable" --> VST Host & VST effects --> "Cable" --> ASIO4All.  I'll try this later and report my success.

On top of all this, I plan on upgrading my speakers in March or April and going active with them.  As such, instead of getting the popular Behringer DCX unit, I would go this route:  PC based EQ (again, based on room frequency response, etc.) --> DAC/Pre --> "high-end" crossover --> Amps.  This way, there wouldn't be an additional ADA conversion from the DCX (or with the other way to use the DCX, would still avoid it's DAC).  Does this sound like it would work?  In my mind, this should be a better way of going "active" then the DCX route.  Or, am I missing something???

With all this, I think an ideal product would be a preamp / processor with: 1. A high-end USB DAC; 2. Up to 4 pair of pre-outs that can be separately assigned EQ and crossover settings from a PC.  Now, there are PC soundcards that can kinda do this.  Not sure if each output can be assigned separate crossover frequencies, though.

pjchappy

Re: PC based EQ. . .what I have found. . .
« Reply #1 on: 7 Nov 2009, 06:02 am »
Figured out how to route iTunes through ASIO using VAC.  Yippee.

srb

Re: PC based EQ. . .what I have found. . .
« Reply #2 on: 7 Nov 2009, 06:13 am »
Figured out how to route iTunes through ASIO using VAC.  Yippee.

Would that also work with WASAPI in Vista?
 
Steve

NewBuyer

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Re: PC based EQ. . .what I have found. . .
« Reply #3 on: 7 Nov 2009, 06:15 am »
I agree, using plugins and DSP at the pre-DAC level with your PC can be extremely cool.  I've been lazy lately and haven't played around with this stuff for a while, but most recently I had been using the MiniHost program from TobyBear Productions with very nice results.  This was with a Windows XP machine; MiniHost may certainly support Vista as well, I've just not tried it yet with Vista.  At the moment I can't remember if MiniHost allows more than one plugin at a time, but it sure worked great with ASIO, and sounded fantastic with the BBE Sonic Maximizer plugin as well.   :thumb:

pjchappy

Re: PC based EQ. . .what I have found. . .
« Reply #4 on: 7 Nov 2009, 06:18 am »
Not sure.  I'm using Vista, too.  If there's a program for WASAPI like ASIO4ALL, then it should work.  I haven't even attempted to find one, yet.  Figuring out all this other stuff has been a major pain in the ass, but it's easy to explain now that I have it figured out.


pjchappy

Re: PC based EQ. . .what I have found. . .
« Reply #5 on: 7 Nov 2009, 06:23 am »
I agree, using plugins and DSP at the pre-DAC level with your PC can be extremely cool.  I've been lazy lately and haven't played around with this stuff for a while, but most recently I had been using the MiniHost program from TobyBear Productions with very nice results. 

Can you set this program up, by itself, to use any audio player, such as iTunes then to a DAC?

If not, for another $30, the VAC should work.  VAC is pretty cool.  ANY audio coming in to your system, you can set it up to record, even though it isn't regularly allowed access by any other programs to record.  (like streaming audio, etc.)

Of course, I'm not encouraging any illegal recordings, etc. 


pjchappy

Re: PC based EQ. . .what I have found. . .
« Reply #6 on: 7 Nov 2009, 06:31 am »
Would that also work with WASAPI in Vista?
 
Steve

Now that I think about it, Foobar can do WASAPI.  So, if you're interested in using any DSPs on the PC side, VAC should allow you to incorporate Foobar, PC side DSPs and WASAPI.

srb

Re: PC based EQ. . .what I have found. . .
« Reply #7 on: 7 Nov 2009, 06:37 am »
Now that I think about it, Foobar can do WASAPI.  So, if you're interested in using any DSPs on the PC side, VAC should allow you to incorporate Foobar, PC side DSPs and WASAPI.

Actually I want to use iTunes for my media player.  I thought there was perhaps some advantage in using the WASAPI driver vs the ASIO driver under Windows Vista.
 
If that's not the case, then I can use ASIO.  I just wanted to be able to get a bit perfect stream in exclusive mode out of iTunes, which I didn't think was possible, until now.
 
Steve

cloudbaseracer

Re: PC based EQ. . .what I have found. . .
« Reply #8 on: 8 Nov 2009, 04:33 pm »
pjchappy,

I was excited when I saw your post here.  This is something that I want to implement as well.  I really think if we can do the room correction, crossovers and signal processing in the computer digitally we can have a great system. One that will hopefully "correct" for a lot of room deficiencies.

Have you checked out:

http://www.spatialcomputer.com/page6/page6.html

This is to be used with the Emerald Physics CS2.3 speakers.   I think it is doing what you are looking for. 

I have sent you a personal message as well.

Thanks,

James

pjchappy

Re: PC based EQ. . .what I have found. . .
« Reply #9 on: 8 Nov 2009, 10:59 pm »
pjchappy,

I was excited when I saw your post here.  This is something that I want to implement as well.  I really think if we can do the room correction, crossovers and signal processing in the computer digitally we can have a great system. One that will hopefully "correct" for a lot of room deficiencies.

Have you checked out:

http://www.spatialcomputer.com/page6/page6.html

This is to be used with the Emerald Physics CS2.3 speakers.   I think it is doing what you are looking for. 

I have sent you a personal message as well.

Thanks,

James

That's right along the lines of my thinking.  However, it's way out of line as to the price.   :lol:

Also, that device / package does a lot that can just be done via PC.  If you remove that stuff from it, the hard drive. . .and even the microphone, etc., I'm sure the price can come down to AT LEAST $6,500.   :P

In my mind, the most simple system would be all processing, room analysis, and EQ on the PC side, with a USB based preamp / crossover with multiple, assignable outputs (with all assignments done via the PC).

Someone make me one.  I'll pay up to $1K for it.   :rotflmao:

cloudbaseracer

Re: PC based EQ. . .what I have found. . .
« Reply #10 on: 17 Nov 2009, 03:58 am »
Paul,

I sent you an email to your personal box but have not heard anything from you so I am not sure if you got it?

James

mojave

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Re: PC based EQ. . .what I have found. . .
« Reply #11 on: 17 Nov 2009, 09:43 pm »
I own Virtual Audio Cable, too. However, I found it was much easier to use the VST plugin feature of J. River Media Center. This past weekend I finally removed the Behringer DCX2496 from my system.

BPT

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Re: PC based EQ. . .what I have found. . .
« Reply #12 on: 17 Nov 2009, 10:24 pm »
Here's the software http://www.acourate.com/, now all you have to do is get the hardware to use with it.
Chris H.

cloudbaseracer

Re: PC based EQ. . .what I have found. . .
« Reply #13 on: 18 Nov 2009, 01:21 am »
Uneducated question here - How does someone get multiple channels out of a computer if it only has one spdif out and you need essentially four channels for bi-amping?  Maybe I am not thinking aboutthis correctly but it seems as though you would need multiple jacks and a way to designate which "channels" go to each specific jack.

Thanks,

James

Nyal Mellor

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Re: PC based EQ. . .what I have found. . .
« Reply #14 on: 18 Nov 2009, 06:19 pm »
You have to encode into a 5.1 format to transmit over SPDIF, not sure how you can do this...

I'm running Mac based EQ, using iTunes, Soundflowerbed to route audio to AU Lab. In AU Lab I'm hosting Flux Epure to run parametric EQ.

For removing room modes you want to run high Q parametric EQ. The only way you can tune these is through measurement. Unfortunately with Room EQ wizard you can't do proper real time measurement as you can't run the measurement signal through the EQ you have put in place.