Where to buy plasti clay again?

rcag_ils · « **on:** 5 Nov 2009, 01:35 pm »

I am in the MN area, could anyone tell me where to buy plasti clay again? I guess I could have sifted through the thread to find it, but it'd take too long.

I've taken apart a pair of speakers recently to restore the woofer, since I have them apart, it would be a good time to give them the plasti clay treatment.

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #1 on:** 5 Nov 2009, 01:37 pm »

I can send you a stick if you like.

wilsynet · « **Reply #2 on:** 5 Nov 2009, 02:28 pm »

http://www.misterart.com/g837/Plast-i-Clay-Modeling-Clay.htm

Get the grey stuff.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #3 on:** 5 Nov 2009, 03:03 pm »

Just about any hobby shop (like Miachael's, Hobby Lobby or Ben Franklin crafts). I don't think they have at JoAnne Fabrics, tho.

Online is the cheapest tho.....www.allartsupplies.com (type in 'plasticlay' or plast-i-clay' to find it) is where I have bought it. It's real cheap there...especially if you live on the East Coast the shipping isn't too high (I live on West Coast and the shipping on 10lbs of clay was almost as much as the clay cost itself)

John

rcag_ils · « **Reply #4 on:** 5 Nov 2009, 03:52 pm »

Thank you big red machine, but since I'll need about 10lbs or so, and the online price is so cheap, so it's not worth the trouble.

Thank you, the rest of you for the info, now I have something to start with.

turkey · « **Reply #5 on:** 5 Nov 2009, 05:15 pm »

I kind of wonder if this actually does anything with speakers of already good quality?

Let's assume that the woofer basket resonates, and that clay dampens the resonance. Is the difference audible?

Ditto for the walls of the enclosure.

I know that applying clay will tend to dampen vibration. No argument there. But is it audible in every case?

Did Frank immediately take apart his HT3s when he got them and apply plast-i-clay?

Wayner · « **Reply #6 on:** 5 Nov 2009, 07:10 pm »

Quote from: TheChairGuy on 5 Nov 2009, 03:03 pm

Just about any hobby shop (like Miachael's, Hobby Lobby or Ben Franklin crafts). I don't think they have at JoAnne Fabrics, tho.

Online is the cheapest tho.....www.allartsupplies.com (type in 'plasticlay' or plast-i-clay' to find it) is where I have bought it. It's real cheap there...especially if you live on the East Coast the shipping isn't too high (I live on West Coast and the shipping on 10lbs of clay was almost as much as the clay cost itself)

John

Yes, Joann Fabric has plasticlay. It's not called that, but it's non-hardening clay. It's called EZ shape modeling clay. I buy mine there.

Wayner

mark funk · « **Reply #7 on:** 5 Nov 2009, 09:20 pm »

If you don't like the rainbow look of Plast-a-clay. I uesd Van Aken modeling clay on my Dahlquist DQ10s. They have many colors, I used black on all the speaker baffles but on the inside of my woofer I have that nice rainbow look. I have a little more
then 10lbs more like 70lbs and the woofer does not walk around on the floor any more and it sounds much better too.

Van Aken can be found at the above places too.

rcag_ils · « **Reply #8 on:** 6 Nov 2009, 04:53 pm »

Quote

I kind of wonder if this actually does anything with speakers of already good quality?

Let's assume that the woofer basket resonates, and that clay dampens the resonance. Is the difference audible?

Ditto for the walls of the enclosure.

I know that applying clay will tend to dampen vibration. No argument there. But is it audible in every case?

Did Frank immediately take apart his HT3s when he got them and apply plast-i-clay?

I have no idea what improvemet there will be, since I've never done any plasti-clay treatment, but Frank's article made sense, and a little improvement is a little improvement, never hurt to have them.

The speakers I am working on is a pair of Design Acoustic PS-10a, there's a cardboard paper enclosure around the midrange, and I don't know if I should put plasti-clay around it, I am assuming the plasti-clay will leave a thin film of oil on the surface. But the speakers appear to be very high quality, the woofers are kind of light, for reason of not to interfere with the midrange in a downfiring configuration in a small cabinet.

Wayner, how much JoAnn Fabric charge for the clay?

Wayner · « **Reply #9 on:** 6 Nov 2009, 07:57 pm »

The wifey always bought it, but I think it was very inexpensive. You will need to get several packages to do the speakers.

Wayner

WGH · « **Reply #10 on:** 6 Nov 2009, 08:27 pm »

Quote from: turkey on 5 Nov 2009, 05:15 pm

I kind of wonder if this actually does anything with speakers of already good quality?

Let's assume that the woofer basket resonates, and that clay dampens the resonance. Is the difference audible?

Ditto for the walls of the enclosure.

I know that applying clay will tend to dampen vibration. No argument there. But is it audible in every case?

I would say the effect of dampening is cumulative. Putting clay on the speaker basket was subtle at best and it certainly did no harm, but if you got everything tore apart you might as well do it.

Damping the speaker walls made the most dramatic change by increasing the focus, depth, and spacial qualities of the sound. I didn't expect imaging to be changed but individual instruments and voices are more precisely located in the space between the speakers. Speakers that are well braced with 1" thick walls would probably not show as much improvement as my Von Schweikert VR2's, which were designed and built with price in mind. I used both wood braces and cutoffs of Richlite countertop material with excellent results.

Wayne

Wayner · « **Reply #11 on:** 6 Nov 2009, 08:38 pm »

If you do some research into Frank's Audio Basics, he recommends putting a 1/4" layer of plasticlay on the interior of the front baffle. This will help absorb cabinet vibrations that can muddy the sound and blur the imaging. I recall a story of one of Frank's customers who actually built a pair of speakers out of concrete. Have fun.

Wayner aa

avahifi · « **Reply #12 on:** 6 Nov 2009, 10:12 pm »

Years ago I did the plasticlay thing at B&W at Worthing, England in their sound lab. They let me use a matched pair of new B&W DM6 small high quality bookshelf speakers. I pulled the woofer from one and gave it (and the back of the tweeter) the treatment and put it back together. I had brought 1/2 pound of the stuff with me on the trip just hoping for the opportunity to show it to them. Since they were even matched cabinet grain, nobody, not even me, could tell which was which.

We took them into the playback room and set them side by side and ran their test music through them set in mono. The group there (a freebee tour group of American dealers) along with several B&W engineers, all sat in and made notes regarding first, was there a difference, and second, if so which one was "better".

The results were nearly unamious in favor of the plasticlay treated one. I opened them up afterward to find out which was which. Later B&W put this concept into production on some of their first generation Matrix series speakers (not the 801 or 802). The engineered the metal frameworks so they could pour damping material into the frames in production and have it set up permanently. Unfortunately, the used a silicon like rubbery damping material that violated Van Alstine's famous damping material rule "meatballs don't bounce." So I don't know how successful their results were as I never heard an undamped Matrix speaker of that series to compare with the production damped version.

I know Dennis Murphy finally tired it very recently and did not hear anything worthwhile, but he did not do it double blind and was suspect to start with.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #13 on:** 6 Nov 2009, 10:53 pm »

On 2, or maybe 3 speakers now I have heard substantial benefit of using it.

A dealer had turned me on to rope caulk (Mortite) years ago when I first did it - and it indeed worked, too, but really tears up the skin after long use.

Plasticlay, or modellling clay derivatives thereof like EZ Shape, work great as intended on loudspeakers and hollow turntable bases...and is easy on the hands/skin.

Thanks for the awesome 'gift' Frank. My cheapie Lineaums, now clad with 8+lbs of plasticlay each along each of the six walls...has fended off far pricier competition I've had them up against in my home - mostly due to plasticlay (tho a changeout from the cheap OEM Peerless woofers they came from helped, too)

I'm not sure it provided 16x the benefit of the 1/2 lb used on the B&W's...but it's surprising how effective it really is

John

hotroady · « **Reply #14 on:** 6 Nov 2009, 11:17 pm »

Ace Hardware has the best price I've found. It's called duct seal.

avahifi · « **Reply #15 on:** 6 Nov 2009, 11:46 pm »

I would not use duct seal or plumbers putty or mortite or that stuff because it may give off acid fumes that will not do your voice coils any good at all.

Stick to the plasticlay or artist's modeling clay available at art supply stores. Make sure you get the never hardening type.

Frank

hotroady · « **Reply #16 on:** 7 Nov 2009, 01:25 am »

Nope it's plasti-clay. They give discount for quanity, also. I think it was around 2.50 lb. It's grey but same as multi colour stuff at Joann and model shops.

rcag_ils · « **Reply #17 on:** 7 Nov 2009, 01:36 am »

WGH, could you tell me where did you get that foam piece for tweeter, and how did you glue it onto the cabinet?

I don't think I'll go crazy with the plasti-clay on the cabinet, too much of it would reduce the internal volume of the speaker.

rcag_ils · « **Reply #18 on:** 7 Nov 2009, 01:46 am »

Duct Seal is very tough stuff, we use them outside in extreme weather and it keeps the rodent and insect out of the cables, and it last for YEARS. I am not sure model clay would have such extreme properties. I kicked around the idea of using duct seal for awhile, and decided not to.

WGH · « **Reply #19 on:** 7 Nov 2009, 02:35 am »

Quote from: rcag_ils on 7 Nov 2009, 01:36 am

WGH, could you tell me where did you get that foam piece for tweeter, and how did you glue it onto the cabinet?

I don't think I'll go crazy with the plasti-clay on the cabinet, too much of it would reduce the internal volume of the speaker.

First off as an explanation - I always do things the hard way, that is just the way I am wired.

I wanted gray or black foam but the only stuff I found at our neighborhood foam and fabric place was a block of foam, so I sliced it into 1/2" slices on my band saw then cut it to shape with a razor knife using a 1/4" MDF template I made.

I used double sided tape to stick it on, but not your usual ACE Hardware tape because that didn't work. I used industrial strength Fastcap Speedtape at about $10 a roll.

The plasti-clay was only used on my speaker spiders, I would have needed too much to do the inside of both speakers so I opted for mass, Richlite is extremely dense and is made from paper and resin compressed into a solid sheet.

Wayne