[geraldedison]

Hi,

Even though I like the SET sound, I feel I'm not giving my RM40 the juice it needs to bloom.  So looking to move to higher power amp to if it will help.  Been browsing Audiogon lately doing window shopping and there were couple of amps in the $1750 - $2500 range. 

There's the VTL 150 ST, Cary 120S, Audio Research VS110 and several BAT amps - VK75, VK60 and VK 55 in that range. 

Having SET amps in the past, I favor a sweeter sound and I thought the VTL would be a good option as it is switchable between 75W Triode to 150W Tetrode.   

Cary like the VTL 150 is also switchable and I have the Cary 98 SLP pre-amp and it may make a good match.

Audio Research has rave reviews and great reputation, but I've been told it has less of the tube sound than VTL or Cary.

BAT has the lowest power but also some of the flatest measurements and the prices are most attractive between models of VK75, VK60  and VK55.

Hoping to get some advice before I commit; thanks.

Gerald
 

[doug s.]

if you are patient, you can search for a used mesa baron - it can run 55wpc pure triode, to 150 pure pentode.  or 2/3 triode at 85wpc, or 2/3 pentode at 120wpc.  plus, negative feedback settings of 0db, -2db, -4db, -8db.  and, it's a true dual-mono design - even has two separate power switches & power cords.

if you are willing to bi-amp, i think you will find set works fine on the rm40, w/solid state driving the 40's woofers.  i had my 40wpc audio mirror 6c33c set monoblocks on rim's (woodsyi's) rm40's, and the sound was excellent, imo.

doug s.

ps - you may also want to consider another more neutral preamp.  i had a cary slp98, and found it to be quite dark-sounding, not wery open or detailed.  nice enough, but the melos ma333r i replaced it with was in another league completely...

[Tyson]

Cary is the most tubey, VTL is less tubey, and AR sounds almost SS (at least to my ears).  I ran VTL's in my system for a while when I had the 40's and I was very happy with them.

[geraldedison]

Doug,

Thanks for the recommendations...I do have to admit the brands you mention there are totally new to me.  I'll have to do some research for that one.  Although the thought of a totally configuration amp sounds like it should simplify life for folks like us in this hobby.  I'm surprise it hasn't catch on; but I can imagine the execution for such an amp must be very complex...

Tyson,

You mention you ran VTL on your rm-40 and like it; can you share which VTL you used?  I'm seeing there is the VTL ST150 in my price range and above that there is a VTL MB280; which is more power...but also more money.

Can't afford the extra power if I don't need it...

Thank you both for you input!

Gerald

[ecramer]

Quicksilver MX190 95 watt p/c stereo tube amp

This will gwt you where you want to be 

[doug s.]

Doug,

Thanks for the recommendations...I do have to admit the brands you mention there are totally new to me.  I'll have to do some research for that one.  Although the thought of a totally configuration amp sounds like it should simplify life for folks like us in this hobby.  I'm surprise it hasn't catch on; but I can imagine the execution for such an amp must be very complex...

Tyson,

You mention you ran VTL on your rm-40 and like it; can you share which VTL you used?  I'm seeing there is the VTL ST150 in my price range and above that there is a VTL MB280; which is more power...but also more money.

Can't afford the extra power if I don't need it...

Thank you both for you input!

Gerald

the mesa baron is an amp made by one of the better pro-audio tube gear mfr's.  they no longer make home audio product, but they still support this amp, and it is an all-around excellent amp, imo.  if i could only keep one of my amps, this would be the one.  regarding "tubiness", imo, it "errs on the side of accuracy"   

http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Out_of%20_Production/The_Baron/the_baron.htm


re: the audio mirror amps, there's a few a/c members who have them - wery powerful for set amps, and way underpriced, even at new retail, imo, for what they bring to the table.

a pair yust sold on agon for $1750:
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1262103277&/Audio-Mirror-6c33c-45W-SET-mon

if you contact vlad directly, he will likely give you a better price than the adwertized retail; he frequently adwertizes new product on agon, like this new preamp:

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1261182250&/Audio-Mirror-T-61-all-triode-p

http://www.audiomirror.com/amps.html


doug s.

[Pez]

Would you consider active crossover w/ a solid state amp for bass and a tube amp for mids and highs? I use this arrangement and the bass is much more gripping and impactful than a tube amp could ever be. Plus all you need for the panels and tweeter is 50+ watts for some serious SPL. I use the Response Audio Bella Extreme which is an amazing amp and because it runs at 500hz (yet another advantage to running a active crossover) and higher it is freed up to give better transients. Very accurate while maintaining a nice tube sound. You will never get a better sound with just one amp like the vtl or Cary. If you play your cards right it won't be much more expensive. 

[doug s.]

Would you consider active crossover w/ a solid state amp for bass and a tube amp for mids and highs? I use this arrangement and the bass is much more gripping and impactful than a tube amp could ever be. Plus all you need for the panels and tweeter is 50+ watts for some serious SPL. I use the Response Audio Bella Extreme which is an amazing amp and because it runs at 500hz (yet another advantage to running a active crossover) and higher it is freed up to give better transients. Very accurate while maintaining a nice tube sound. You will never get a better sound with just one amp like the vtl or Cary. If you play your cards right it won't be much more expensive.

this is exactly what i recommended, w/the audio-mirror amps.   

doug s.

[Pez]

Well great minds thin alike, exceptional ones read the entire thread before posting. I'll settle for my great mind

[geraldedison]

Doug,

Thanks for the link and info on the Mesa Baron; very impressive indeed...

As for the tip of bi-amping; I actually have try that, but without the active cross-over.  I have a pair of the external model of the sub woofer amp that's listed in the VMPS site.  I find I have more listening fatigue with bi-amping then when I just run a single tube amp; all be it with milder bass.  I also sense I lose some of the SET magic when I bi-amp.

So I'm hoping to get a higher power amp to try bi-wiring instead.  This is my attempt to negate possible phasing and amp sensitivity imbalances that may be corrupting the sound (just my suspicion).

Sounds like both you and Tyson have positive results with bi-amping; but I haven't been able to get it right with my combo...

Gerald

[doug s.]

Doug,

Thanks for the link and info on the Mesa Baron; very impressive indeed...

As for the tip of bi-amping; I actually have try that, but without the active cross-over.  I have a pair of the external model of the sub woofer amp that's listed in the VMPS site.  I find I have more listening fatigue with bi-amping then when I just run a single tube amp; all be it with milder bass.  I also sense I lose some of the SET magic when I bi-amp.

So I'm hoping to get a higher power amp to try bi-wiring instead.  This is my attempt to negate possible phasing and amp sensitivity imbalances that may be corrupting the sound (just my suspicion).

Sounds like both you and Tyson have positive results with bi-amping; but I haven't been able to get it right with my combo...

Gerald

gerald, i think to bi-amp effectively, you need to go active.  and, to be clear, the rm40's i listened to w/my audio mirror amps are not mine, they are rim's - i brought them over to his house to see what they could do.  a lot, imo.   

(rim is woodsyi here on the a/c - check his system - he uses modded asl hurricanes on the tops of his actively tri-amped rm40/subwoofer system.)

doug s.

[Pez]

Agreed, if you're biamping using a passive crossover will not yield anywhere near the same results as an actively bi or triamped setup. It is probably the biggest single improvement you can make to the 40s. I am a hairs-breadth away from having my tweeter amp build complete and I will be full active myself.

The great thing about active amping is you can mix and match amps of different build types and power capability. Most people use 2-3 of the same amp. I am using a 600 watt solid state for the bass drivers, 60 watt tubes for the mids, and soon I will be using a 5 watt SET/15 watt UL tube amp for the tweeters.

[rpf]

Every BAT amp I've heard has sounded dark and colored to me.

I had the Cary 120S, McIntosh MC275 V5, and CJ LP66S in for audition for a couple of weeks and the only one I didn't like was the Cary: it was dull and involving. All of the amps had only their stock tubes. The Mac sounded almost as powerful as the Cary and was much more resolving and refined.

Can't comment on VTL or Audio Research.

[hmen]

I use a pair of Atma-Sphere M60's for the ribbons in my RM 40's and I'm very happy with the result.

[rblnr]

Recently got a pair of Audio Research 210 monoblocks to drive my 40s -- it's a spectacular combo.   Can't see going less than 100wpc w/the 40s.

[doug s.]

Recently got a pair of Audio Research 210 monoblocks to drive my 40s -- it's a spectacular combo.   Can't see going less than 100wpc w/the 40s.

if you are running full-range, i agree.  if not, i don't agree that you need 100wpc on the ribbons.  as prewiously stated, i have heard 40wpc on the ribbons, and it sounded great.

doug s.

[rblnr]

Recently got a pair of Audio Research 210 monoblocks to drive my 40s -- it's a spectacular combo.   Can't see going less than 100wpc w/the 40s.

if you are running full-range, i agree.  if not, i don't agree that you need 100wpc on the ribbons.  as prewiously stated, i have heard 40wpc on the ribbons, and it sounded great.

doug s.

Agreed.

[Tyson]

Doug,

Thanks for the recommendations...I do have to admit the brands you mention there are totally new to me.  I'll have to do some research for that one.  Although the thought of a totally configuration amp sounds like it should simplify life for folks like us in this hobby.  I'm surprise it hasn't catch on; but I can imagine the execution for such an amp must be very complex...

Tyson,

You mention you ran VTL on your rm-40 and like it; can you share which VTL you used?  I'm seeing there is the VTL ST150 in my price range and above that there is a VTL MB280; which is more power...but also more money.

Can't afford the extra power if I don't need it...

Thank you both for you input!

Gerald

I ran the VTL ST85, and I also ran a pair of MB125's.  I ran them single ended for a while, and it sounded very good.  Then I switched to an active crossover and removed the passive crossover from the speaker entirely, and at that point I started using the MB125's on the mid-panels and the ST85 on the tweeters, plus I had my audio-gd C1 balanced SS amp driving just the bass woofers.  Huge improvements in dynamics and clarity. 

When I realized the VTL's were more power than I'd ever need, I sold them and got my current Dynakit's, which use the same circuit as the VTL's, but are tube rectified.  That gives me a bit more "tube" sound, with a bit lower power.  Of course, I eventually sold my 40's to Pez, they were just too big for my room, and custom built some speakers that would fit my space.  Still running everything actively, because once you go active, it's really hard to go back to the less dynamic, less clear sound of passives.

[geraldedison]

Given all the positive talk around Active bi-amping, I just want to learn what active crossovers are folks using out there.

Also, is it require that one must remove the passive crossovers when going active?

Gerald

[simon wagstaff]

In your price range I would consider the Van Altine U70 and bridging set up, if you are not going to bi-amp. If you are, then the U70 would be a great choice for the ribbons. I love my U70 and wouldn't consider anything else near it's price.