Break in help!!!

penthouse-D · « **on:** 27 Oct 2009, 09:06 pm »

Hello everyone. I'm new to VS and the forum. Thanks in advance for your help and your extremely informative posts. I just took delivery of my new VR4-SR mkIII's. Wow, was I excited to hook them up to my MC402,C46. UGHH. what a disappointment. Albert has been extremely helpful,but will they really sound that much better? Can anyone give me a little insight..how long? Suggestions?

es347 · « **Reply #1 on:** 27 Oct 2009, 09:49 pm »

Before I got my VR5 Anniversaries I owned the VR4 SR MKIIs. My electronics are all McIntosh like yours and I must say they were good from day one but glorious after break in. You need to give them at least 200 hours but will also notice another level of sonics at the 400 hour mile marker. My Annies required the same amount of break in time. Just take comfort in the fact that you now own the best speaker out there in that price range, period.

ceedee · « **Reply #2 on:** 27 Oct 2009, 09:50 pm »

Hello Penthouse-D,

Welcome to the AC.

We have the VR 4 SR mk III also.

Any new speaker need time to break-in.
How long depends of a few parameters like type of wire, power condition, components and even room acoustics.

You ask us if they will sound realy that much better? Better than what?
Please tell us a bit more.

Regards,

Cor

Delacroix · « **Reply #3 on:** 27 Oct 2009, 09:58 pm »

Penthouse-D

Break-in of speakers and other components is real enough but it should not be a case of new speakers starting out sounding so awful you are totally disappointed. As Cor mentioned, some further details are needed but I'd also recommend double-checking the connections on everything to make sure it's all hooked up as it should be (it happens, check the archives) or that everything is ok further up the chain. If everything is as it should be and the new speakers still sound awful, I'd start looking closer at the speakers to make sure nothing was damaged in shipping etc. But give us more insight here, what in particular is so disappointing to your ears?

Best

kingdeezie · « **Reply #4 on:** 27 Oct 2009, 10:16 pm »

Delacroix hit a lot of the nails on their heads; its important to state what about the speakers you are so disappointed with...

I can relate, although not with VSA speakers. I took delivery earlier in the year on some GR Research LSs after reading a lot of professional and personal reports on how great they were....

From day one I had been disappointed; come to find it, my disappointment was related to a lot of things outside of the speaker. I have since upgraded my preamp and sources; and need to upgrade my amplification; but I get closer to happiness every time I make a change in the right area.

Room treatments made a huge difference as well.

I don't know what your issue is with the VSA; but if I had to make a suggestion, perhaps look at the Mcintosh preamp. The MC 402 is generally considered a great amplifier; but perhaps the combination of the Mcintosh amp and the Mcintosh preamp is giving you too much of one thing and the VSA is highlighting this.

es347 · « **Reply #5 on:** 27 Oct 2009, 11:12 pm »

perhaps look at the Mcintosh preamp. The MC 402 is generally considered a great amplifier; but perhaps the combination of the Mcintosh amp and the Mcintosh preamp is giving you too much of one thing and the VSA is highlighting this.

I run the C46 and 501s and am mystified by your suggestion. What is "too much of one thing"?

es347 · « **Reply #6 on:** 27 Oct 2009, 11:15 pm »

Penthouse..

One of our European brothers here on the circle discovered that customs had removed his bass drivers to check for contraband. Are you here in the states or did customs have their hands on your speakers?

Charles Calkins · « **Reply #7 on:** 27 Oct 2009, 11:32 pm »

Penthouse:

What brand speakers did you have before?

Cheers
Charlie

penthouse-D · « **Reply #8 on:** 28 Oct 2009, 02:46 am »

Wow. Thanks for the many responses. Believe it or not, I started upgrading my system with the Mac stuff. I had Infinity Ren 90's from the 80's. You may find this hard to believe, but before I sold them, I had them hooked up to the new stuff and they sounded really good. I live in a NYC apt. and I can't have them 3 feet from the wall. about 1 foot seems to be max.. They are 7 feet apart and about 1 inch toed in. They just aren't full. Very little "soundstage", and no punch. I spoke with Albert before shipment. He was extremely helpful. He said it was OK to have them up against the wall because they were front baffled. My room is 20X21. I sit about 12 feet from the front of the speakers. I have to work with what I have. I am using the supplied little rubber feet under the disks. I have hardwood floors but the area rug runs almost to the front of the speakers. I'm considering removing them. I have a PS Audio powere conditioner with PNF Audio biwire speaker cables. (Read the reviews). I really thought they'd have a lot more "punch". ALbert has asked me to be patient. I will,but I'm fairly disapponted and need some suggestions.

es347 · « **Reply #9 on:** 28 Oct 2009, 03:15 am »

Hey Penthouse,

Placement that close to the front wall should give you good bass and your MAC electronics should have excellent synergy with any VSA speaker. I can't understand why your VR4s aren't throwing a huge soundstage. My VR4s had a ton of low end, excellent resolution of detail and a big soundstage especially after reasonable break in. I'm sure you have checked all your connections but just to be sure, check all your speaker cable terminations and ICs too for that matter. It's possible that you have them connected out of phase. Get your hands on a stereo test cd or a good mono recording and confirm phasing by seeing if your mono image is dead center and not spread out across the soundstage. If your bass drivers are out of phase that will result in a thin bass. Be patient my friend and trust me and others here on the circle when we say that you own one hell of a speaker there...much, much better than you old Infinitys.

Charles Calkins · « **Reply #10 on:** 28 Oct 2009, 03:27 am »

Penthouse:
Do you think the Infinity's were more efficient than the VSA's? If they were at the same preamp volume level the Infinity's would sound louder than the VSA's. Louder is not always better. Comprende? Just a thought. We VSA owners are more or less a bunch of happy campers. Once in a blue moon an unhappy owner comes along. You'll get things right. Don't think it's your electronics. Mac gear is top notch. I've got the 220 pre and a 352 amp. Drives the living crap out of my VR4-GEN III HSE speakers.

Cheers
Charlie

Charles Calkins · « **Reply #11 on:** 28 Oct 2009, 04:08 am »

Steve:
I'm using the 8 ohm taps.

Cheers
Charlie

mikel51 · « **Reply #12 on:** 28 Oct 2009, 11:50 am »

One way to adjust the soundstage is to use the rear ambience level controls. You may want to break in the speakers with them all the way up. After break in, start with a low level and then turn up the volume until the soundstage is seamless between the speakers (no hole) and dimensional.

penthouse-D · « **Reply #13 on:** 28 Oct 2009, 01:01 pm »

You guys are great. Thanks for the help and concern. My Infinity's were 4 Ohms,and fairly efficient. I'm not looking for volume, I'm looking for "richness" regardless of volume. Charlie, you're running @8 ohms? Albert suggested 4, but I'll give it a try. As I said, I'll be patient. I realize that they need to be broken in a bit. I also realize my listening room setup isn't optimal. Keep the suggestions comming. I'll keep you posted. Thanks!

es347 · « **Reply #14 on:** 28 Oct 2009, 01:11 pm »

8 ohm taps here.

Charles Calkins · « **Reply #15 on:** 28 Oct 2009, 01:33 pm »

Penthouse:
My speakers are rated at 6 ohms. I never had an amp that had a 6 ohm tap. Been using 8 ohm tap from day one.

What happens like say a speaker is 6 ohm and it's hooked up to a 4 ohm tap. Louder? Softer? Or is that a no no. I haven't a clue so that's why I'm asking

Cheers
Charlie

penthouse-D · « **Reply #16 on:** 28 Oct 2009, 04:03 pm »

Hi Charlie. In response to your question. I'm clueless. lol

Wayne1 · « **Reply #17 on:** 28 Oct 2009, 04:21 pm »

Charlie,

Why don't you just try it and report back?

You are not going to hurt anything.

The impedance rating of a speaker varies with frequency. The rating of 6 or 8 or 4 is a "nominal" impedance. That means that over most of the frequencies it is around that number. It will be higher at some frequencies and lower at others. You should not feel that you have to use a certain tap from your amp. Try all of them and listen. The tap that sounds best with your combination of speakers, wire and amp is the one to use.

Do make sure you turn the amp off when changing speaker connections.

Charles Calkins · « **Reply #18 on:** 28 Oct 2009, 04:45 pm »

Yo Wayne!

Gotcha. Will do and report back.

Cheers
Charlie

es347 · « **Reply #19 on:** 28 Oct 2009, 05:09 pm »

I switched back and forth between the 4 ohm and 8 ohm taps and quite frankly could not hear a nickel's worth of difference. Of course I'm old and have tin ears.