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Ok, my saying the OP has shown that his understanding of electricity is incorrect at a basic level does in no way insinuate that he is stupid. It only seems to infer that because people think they know what electricity is and that it is a simple thing to grasp/understand.
As usual Bob a great post. Dont worry about what the orthodoxy thinks - the orthodoxy never made progress. IMHO the thing that will make this stuff more 'acceptable' is double blind listening texts. They are very hard to ignore.ThanksBill
Guys, I really would like to see the topic return to cables... but I'll "bite" one last time. In that, could somebody please tell me how a simple fuse works and why we need to increase the diameter of our speaker wires when we deliver more power to the speaker... if the electron density doesn't increase? By the way, has anybody heard of a guy named Kirchoff? H'e dead now I guess, but he may be watching from another plane and would probably like to know the answer to those questions too. I'm going out with the family for a while so I won't be responding back soon, but you guys go ahead and have fun without me. I think I can stand the suspense in the meant time. Thanks, -Bob
Quote from: Browntrout on 24 Oct 2009, 07:53 pmOk, my saying the OP has shown that his understanding of electricity is incorrect at a basic level does in no way insinuate that he is stupid. It only seems to infer that because people think they know what electricity is and that it is a simple thing to grasp/understand.Do you mean 'imply'?http://grammartips.homestead.com/imply.html
Your atempt to change what you said and shift the topic to something else is embarasing. I have no wish to converse with such a dishonest person any more.
Everytime I see a discussion about this subject degenerate into condition where two irreconcilable diametrically opposed positions are continuously restated with no possibility or either side proving anything or even posing a convincing argument in their own favor I am stricken with the uncontrollable urge to laugh my a** off. I am firmly in the camp of those who hear the difference. Being able to hear any difference between speakerwires,ICs,powercords or hookup wire however is entirely system dependent. Starting in about 1992 my system resolution improved to the point that speakerwires of different metallurgy and geometry sounded different from one another. As the years have passed my system's resolution has continued to improve and the difference between various metallic conductors and differing geometries has become even easier to hear. The most recent example of this hit home when I built a SS class A buffer. In my haste to hear hear the fruits of my labor I hardwired my connection from a set of input jacks straight to the DACT pot and I was ready to rock. The buffer sounded great and exceeded my expectations. I had made my connections with 6in. 24 OFC teflon insulated wire because it was easy to solder and ready to hand in my parts bin. I had planned from the get go to make these connections with 12ga. stranded OFC. It has to be cut to exactly the right length and is a pain to solder. It is not flexible and can place a lot strain on the solder joint. For the heck of it I left that set of inputs till the last and wired the rest of the inputs with the 12ga. as planned. I then conducted a listening test between the two differently wired inputs, I didn't expect to hear much if any difference between the two inputs as the this was a high level signal with a maximum of 2volts RMS and it was only traveling 6in.The difference between the two inputs was unfortunately quite graphically obvious. The 24ga. connection was deficient in dynamics, it lacked extension at the frequency extremes and the size of the soundstage was noticeably smaller than the input wired with 12ga.The difference was very obvious,six inches of wire could make or break the sound of the buffer,no DBT was required the two by four to the side of the head was more than sufficient. The point of this post is to illustrate that when you are confronted with such a phenomena without a readily available scientific explanation you can either deny its existence or you can deal with it and exploit this new phenomena to your advantage. Why it happens is not necessary to know in order to deal with it on an empirical basis. The DIY aspects of this hobby in particular would be easier to deal with without this added factor. For me this sort of debate amounts to arguing about whether the sun shining in the sky is real or a shared mass hallucination. Either way it still seems to rise every day. It never ceases to amaze me when so trivial a matter leads to such a polarization of viewpoints.Scotty
Interesting. I never was especially good at English. If I say 'it only seems to infer that....' am I speaking from the perspective of the 'receiver' as used as an example in the link explaining the correct uses of infer and imply? I am always open to improving my writing.
I guess that one went right over your head. I would have thought a "genius" would have understood the basic inference in the speaker wire example. The question was not how many electrons are contained in a given volume of metal, but WHY the cross sectional area needs to be increased when more power is being delivered to the speaker. In a static condition where the wire is just sitting there with no connections made to it you are correct... the number of electrons is a constant based on the volume of the metal. But what happens when current flows to a load through it? WHY does the cross sectional areea need to be increased at some point? I hate to use the old "water in a pipe" analogy... but it does make the issue pretty easy to understand. I could go on and on...like... a volt-meter measures voltage so what does an ammeter measure? Well... I guess even geniuses are allowed to miss the point once in a while. Yeah... didn't you know. OK - you can really trust I'm honestly telling the truth on this one: "Everything I say is a lie." Now... go ponder that one a while and leave the discussion to what is was intended for - the difference in the sound of cables and if they are audible or not - and possibly "why" if there is a difference. Calling me a liar just got you evicted from the club. Sorry man, but you don't piss on the front porch of your host. I guess being a genius doesn't apply to the concept of courtesy. Now don't go away mad... just go away. -Bob
Interesting. I never was especially good at English. If I say 'it only seems to infer that....' am I speaking from the perspective of the 'receiver' as used as an example in the link explaining the correct uses of infer and imply? I am always open to improving my writing. You can take the piss all you want I've spent my whole life putting up with people that ridicule me for many reasons, the way I speak, the music I listen to, my appreciation of beauty etc what I have found is that when I speak the truth people choose an alternative motive for the truth being spoken other than the one I have always had. What I said in your link is true, and much more is true also, things you would not believe, should I be fearfull to write it on here? Do you think I am a fool for writing that? I wonder myself, it was an emotional reaction. As is this.P.S Good post Scotty.
The electron density in a conductor does not increase under the application of a voltage potential.
In my haste to hear hear the fruits of my labor I hardwired my connection from a set of input jacks straight to the DACT pot and I was ready to rock. The buffer sounded great and exceeded my expectations. I had made my connections with 6in. 24 OFC teflon insulated wire because it was easy to solder and ready to hand in my parts bin. I had planned from the get go to make these connections with 12ga. stranded OFC. It has to be cut to exactly the right length and is a pain to solder. It is not flexible and can place a lot strain on the solder joint. For the heck of it I left that set of inputs till the last and wired the rest of the inputs with the 12ga. as planned. I then conducted a listening test between the two differently wired inputs, I didn't expect to hear much if any difference between the two inputs as the this was a high level signal with a maximum of 2volts RMS and it was only traveling 6in.The difference between the two inputs was unfortunately quite graphically obvious. The 24ga. connection was deficient in dynamics, it lacked extension at the frequency extremes and the size of the soundstage was noticeably smaller than the input wired with 12ga.The difference was very obvious,six inches of wire could make or break the sound of the buffer,no DBT was required the two by four to the side of the head was more than sufficient.......... Scotty
