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QuoteThey have no idea how to be civil with anyone Uh...A lot of us here are also on DIY.I have no comment about the original post, but...c'mon.
They have no idea how to be civil with anyone
Quote from: JimJ on 21 Oct 2009, 06:02 pmQuoteThey have no idea how to be civil with anyone Uh...A lot of us here are also on DIY.I have no comment about the original post, but...c'mon. I think CW was only referring to only those 2 who found fault with Bobs analogy and semantics and thus rejected his theory out of hand. I have already apologised to Bob for starting the fertiliser storm, but in my defense I did say it would add fuel to the fire. On the + side, John Curl did chime in with his encouragement, and that was good to see. As for the actual science, I am in no position to make an intelligent comment but was hoping to spark pertinent debate and discussion, and that is starting to take place both here and there, so I might better understand the principles involved.
You either agree with their views or be prepared to be skewered!
Very interesting read. I applaud your efforts, and appreciate that you are trying to put some science behind the voodoo. Very nice work, Bob. Some of it was over my head, but I think that the basic theory has merit, and may be a good explanation of why people are hearing what they do.As I was reading the paper I couldn't help but wonder what effect either heating or cooling the conductors would have. Somebody mentioned cryo'ed copper earlier in this thread, what would happen if a signal were run through copper that is somehow temperature controlled well below freezing. Would it then take on the characteristics of a different group?
John, your comments regarding the the lack of a testing methodology by which the assertions contained Bob's paper could be testedresonated with my own thoughts about his papers content. Without the means of establishing a cause and effect relationship between Debye temperature and anecdotal reports the paper becomes speculation. Every scientific advance starts with an idea. I would like to see Bob flesh this one out with the necessary mathematical structure to make a testable hypothesis. It would be nice to have a working mathematical model firmly grounded in physics that could be tested by independent researchers and that could account for the anecdotal reports concerning the sound of conductors made from different metals. Scotty
What amazes me is do those that think that the people that listen and can hear differences in capacitors, cables, etc., pay attention to what nay sayers say? I think that it is more of a talking point for those that say that others could not possibly hear differences. The people that listen could care less what the other side thinks. It has never stopped the listeners, but the nay sayers continue to think that they will somehow change the mind set somehow by talking about how delusional the other side is. It is very one sided to me. Do the nay sayers enjoy talking to the walls (themselves)? It boils down to the nay sayers must want to feel that they know it all and feel the need to "educate" the listening crowd. Why else would they spend endless hours "schooling" the listeners as to how delusional that they are and they need to take a sedative and get immediate therapy. They must believe that listers must be one step away from joining religious clans, personal injury or causing public safety issues. I am always amazed to the depths that they go to to belittle, chastise and ridicule the listening crowd. It is a wonder that any of the listening crowd can function in everyday life. I mean they must need supervision to just get through each day without driving into brick walls
Interesting stuff there Bob.(Oh, you have brass listed in the class A materials twice)Now who sells tin wires? aa-Tony FYI, Supra sells tin coated 4N copper cables [ Ply 5.1] wound in a oval Litz shielded with a drain wire. A wonderfull cable neutral in character and $5.50 / ft. I use no connectors, the bare wire fits perfectly in the binding posts hole. charles
I understand your position, but I have the greatest gifts ever given to mankind. A brain and two ears. I trust the combination to tell me everything that science refuses to believe. Besides the nay sayers are so vehement to the point of ridicule. I guess I have never heard some one bash another because they said that they did not hear difference before. Who am I to tell another that they "have to hear" anything. I just do not want someone telling me that I could not as science says otherwise. I trust my defective standard equipment more than anything else.
When you recover from this initial effort, could you comment on the effect the Smith Cell has on this phenomena? Thanks Bob!
You are indeed living up to my "mad scientist" label of you. You need to get together with Frank Tchang (ASI Liveline), the guy who pioneered the small metallic bowls as resonance control within the room treatment category. Frank's latest cables are incredible, and he espouses the use of various metals (I think 5 or 6 per cable) to form a synergy that, well, the proof is in the listening. With your empirical discoveries, and his recipe...who knows how great a cable can be made!
Agreed - would be an interesting combination of the "alchemist" and the "scientist".
Interesting stuff there Bob.(Oh, you have brass listed in the class A materials twice)Now who sells tin wires? -Tony
Does cryo treating the metal change its properties enough, therefore reducing its Debye point? In other words, for example, making copper wire more detailed than a non-cryo treated copper?
Ted,When Bob brought up his "Black Box" (without the box at the time) here for a weekend of relaxation and a little testing we used the Liveline cables for the test. I can tell you first hand it's a wonderful combination and I now use a finished version of the "Black Box" in combination with my Liveline speaker cables in the demo room.
FYI:Group C does exist - as an audio cable......
? From this I have two things to say, the higher signal level corresponds (if I understand the meaning correctly) to a higher swing in voltages which usually corresponds to a lower current for the signal so to state that there is more charge carriers in a higher strength signal would be incorrect there would be less charge carriers (per cross sectioanl area at any instance) but each one would possess more energy resulting in less collisions (in theory) and each collision changing the path of the electron less as it posseses more energy. This is not necessarily the case as we are (both you and I) applying a Newtonian model to things that do not adhere to this way of thinking. However for the sake of talking about it it works fine for me. Secondly the vibrational rates of these 'phonons' being in the light spectrum is irrelevant as to whether they affect signals that are transmitted in the 'audio range'. The mechanism is not such that the vibrations within the metal become part of the oscilation that determines the frequency of the elctrical signal rather that the vibrations in the metal are in the THREE DEGREES OF FREEDOM which the atoms move in, this three dimensional oscillation interferes with the (for most intense and puposes to aid my explaination, please forgive.) two dimensional nature of the electrical signal. This therefore means that the vibrations of the metal do not have to be in any particular frequency range to affect an audio signal in a wire (or anything else) in fact the higher the frequency of vibration within the metal the more it will affect any signal. I hope you don't mind me writing this, I shall continue to read the rest of the paper later and post further on this wicked topic which is really cool. Thanks.
Hey Joe,So how does that work in implementation? Do I need an extra pair of speaker cables as the black box introduces another connection point between the amp and speaker, or does it come with it's own connectors? Also, I have two pairs of Livelines because I bi-wire out of monoblocks - would I have to buy four of these black boxes? Thanks for helping think through - also I didn't see the price on the website...
