[Warpdrv]

Hey guys... Nuance, TJHUB - been a while since I have been in here...

Just thinking about speaker upgrades....  Looking at suggestions for my situation, and have some questions... I was really considering going with Paradigm Sig S8 .v2, C5, S2's - after audition - I thought they were very nice....    They would easily fit everything I have identically - making for a very simple swap...   

Current system
Paradigm Studio .v4's 100's, CC690, 20's, Infinity Classia rear's...
Anthem D2v, Wyred4Sound 7 Ch Amp -500x3, 250x4
3 x 18" LMS-5400, 1 x TC3000 all sealed - 4000w each, DCX2496


OK heres the deal, room is gynormous and I like to hit some really high SPL's currently which the studios can do, they are just a bit harsh as Nuance can likely attest to...    Though the D2v 'n ARC has worked wonders with what I have - It sounds surprisingly pretty darn good, just want to get that last bit of awesomeness out of it all....   

With 4 Subs in room I can cross a bit higher at 100-110hz with fantastic results, and no localization issues whatsoever... 

1. I have heard Brandons RT-ST's, as well as Terry's HT2-TL's, which were spectacular...  The HT3's are too wide for my setup, so I was thinking about the HT2 line TL or standard - could someone explain what the difference in them would be....   

2. What are the differences between the LCY ribbon or G2 ribbon, is that upgradable on the HT2? Not that the LCY is anything to snarf at...

3. As you can see in the photo, I made a custom riser for my plasma, and built it around the dimensions of the Paradigm 690 or C5 center....  I really don't want to build another, so what is the chance of a custom wide center to roughly match the dimensions of what I have now.

4. Can the SongSurround be upgraded to a Ribbon as well ? - That is roughly the size of speaker I have in the Studio 20 wall mounted... it would make things very easy for the change over...

5. Should I be considering a V3 as well...   for a 3 way with better mid's..?


Don't mind the old photos, there have been updates, carpet and other treatments....
I suppose I should update those pics....   Also still have to veneer my subs and top with granite....  One of these days...

[Big Red Machine]

2.  I think the LCY has a little more vertical dispersion.  Had both.  Both very good.

3. Might give the dimension of your space for that speaker and see how far it is from the Songcenter.  First is fitting the drivers in the space and seeing if the relationship can be kept, otherwise the performance drops off and it gets "too" custom.

4. Ribbons on the surrounds is probably a waste of money for what surrounds really give you.

5.  The V3 center is wayyyyy too big to reconfigure into that space.  Stay with the Songs or even HT1TL's.

The HT2 is smaller than the HT2TL cabinet in height and depth if that matters.

Give Jim those center speaker dimensions and see what he can do!

[R Swerdlow]

Hey Warp.  If I know anything about you, it is that you seem to know what you want, but that you consider many different options.  So here are what facts I know.

Current system
Paradigm Studio .v4's 100's, CC690, 20's, Infinity Classia rear's...
Anthem D2v, Wyred4Sound 7 Ch Amp -500x3, 250x4
3 x 18" LMS-5400, 1 x TC3000 all sealed - 4000w each, DCX2496
OK heres the deal, room is gynormous and I like to hit some really high SPL's currently which the studios can do, they are just a bit harsh as Nuance can likely attest to...    Though the D2v 'n ARC has worked wonders with what I have - It sounds surprisingly pretty darn good, just want to get that last bit of awesomeness out of it all....   

With 4 Subs in room I can cross a bit higher at 100-110hz with fantastic results, and no localization issues whatsoever... 

1. I have heard Brandons RT-ST's, as well as Terry's HT2-TL's, which were spectacular...  The HT3's are too wide for my setup, so I was thinking about the HT2 line TL or standard - could someone explain what the difference in them would be....

The HT2 standard tower comes in a bass reflex cabinet with an f3 of 38 Hz.  The TL comes in a mass-loaded transmission line cabinet similar in design to the SongTower, and goes lower with an f3 of 32 Hz.  They both share the same woofers and tweeter, and similar if not identical crossovers.  The TL cabinet might be a little larger and is made from 1" MDF, and as a result has larger outer dimensions.

I know I prefer the "sound" of TL bass over a ported reflex bass.  It does sound somewhat cleaner than many ported reflex designs I've known (I haven't heard the Studio 100s you have).  As a result, what you are used to hearing now may affect what you might prefer in the future.  For me, I would definitely choose the HT2-TL.  You've heard them and know how good they are.  They are more sensitive than many 3-ways, and can also handle large amount of power like your amp.

With your subs, maybe the bass performance of a TL cabinet vs. the standard cabinet is a non-issue.  In my SongTowers, I also like how the TL design allows for a cleaner sounding midrange.  There is less rear wave reflections from the woofers inside the cabinet that can muck up the midrange.

2. What are the differences between the LCY ribbon or G2 ribbon, is that upgradable on the HT2? Not that the LCY is anything to snarf at...

Dennis Murphy says that both ribbon tweets sound about the same to him.  He uses the LCY in the MTM designs because they are physically smaller, allowing the 2 woofers to be placed closer to each other - an important feature.  They also probably have somewhat better vertical dispersion than the G2.

3. As you can see in the photo, I made a custom riser for my plasma, and built it around the dimensions of the Paradigm 690 or C5 center....  I really don't want to build another, so what is the chance of a custom wide center to roughly match the dimensions of what I have now.

Jim is a custom builder.  Ask, pay, and ye shall receive.

4. Can the SongSurround be upgraded to a Ribbon as well ? - That is roughly the size of speaker I have in the Studio 20 wall mounted... it would make things very easy for the change over...

For movies, I think ribbon tweets in a surround speaker is a waste of money.  For multichannel music, maybe it would be worth it.

5. Should I be considering a V3 as well...   for a 3 way with better mid's..?

I much prefer the HT2 standard or TL over the V3.

[Warpdrv]

Thanks Big Red, and R Swerdlow, for your replies...
Yes, I tend to have somewhat BIG taste, but still value SQ as top priority...   
Appreciate your thoughts and filling me in on your knowledge, which is why I came here....

I think the HT2-TL's would Fit the build quite well...    I do listen to multichannel music from time to time, but I watch alot of movies for sure...   I would tend to lean towards matching tweeters in 5 speakers, so I guess that will be the direction i'll take...     Rear surrounds total waste...     I'm only after 5 speakers here, or maybe just the front 3 and possibly leave the 20's for now...

My Wyred amp will deliver 1000w at 4ohms, I assume someone here has put the HT2-TL through their paces with one of these amps...?   Too much power or can they take the heat... I don't want to overdrive them.  They easily pushed the ST's beyond their limits - when Nuance and I ran a shootout of the ST's and Sig S4's. The Sigs S4's and the ST's were close in SQ, S4's could take alot more power but the ST's certainly blew them away with the Ribbon.

My space for the Center Channel is 40" W Max and 10" Max to allow for aiming, and depth can be as deep as 20", so thats a non-issue... which would yield roughly 3^3 internal volume.  That would tend to allow alot more internal space, but it needs to be a rear ported...  I was looking at the V-Series Monster Center - but the side ports wouldn't work, I could raise the riser, but 5" higher might be pushing it... 

[DMurphy]

Hi.  First off, you need bigger subs.  Or more of them.   

I've never tried to push the HT2's as loud as you're likely to play them, so I just don't know whether they will satisfy you.  The W18 is very rugged and has something like 10 mm max. excursion in one direction, and there are two of them.  So maybe it would be fine.  But  I know Jim has been a little intrigued by the thought of developing a super high sensitivity design.  An MTM with the PHL 6.5" would certainly bring the house down above 100 Hz, and shouldn't break the bank.  Maybe he would be interested in doing a one-off for you that might have broader applications.  I would certainly be up for it.  I don't know whether the PHL would be suitable for TL bass loading.  Bottom line--talk to Jim.      Oh--the G2 has better horizontal dispersion, the LCY does a little better vertically.  I don't know how all that comes out in the wash.  I can't tell much difference, and the LCY is better for MTM use.   

[Warpdrv]

Hehehheh   Hey Dennis, what can I say  aa - I wanted a grand scale of Bass SPL, but I didn't want big huge ported boxes, so this is the direction I went...  I like my bass like my women - clean and tight They certainly make a statement. My room is 8200^3 and its open to most of the house....  Its been a fun adventure building them, and they seriously shake things up in here. 

Funny, the nasty gross old hag of a neighbor come over the other evening when I was showin off the system to my buddy, banged on the door - seeing as we couldn't hear the dam doorbell...
"I can hear that all the way over there !!" pointing at her house 2-300 yards away...  I said, come back when you can FEEL IT !!!! Naughty.... 

Appreciate you stoppin in to put some perspective to my insanity - when drinks are a flowin, and the women want to dance, who am I to say NO...    Its not like I run that type of SPL all the time, just want to know they are up for the task.... 

I'll toss out an email to Jim and see what we can think about...   

[Nuance]

E-mailing Jim usually yields the best answers.  I bet he'll be able to help you out, bro.  Otherwise I am sure the HT2 TL will fit the bill.  I suppose if anyone is up to finding their limits it's you.    Seriously, though, the anechoic sensitivity of the Studio 100 v.4's you have is 88dB, which is 1dB less than what the HT2 TL's are rated.  So if nothing else they'd just about be as sensitive, and in room you might gain a dB or two? 

So a super high sensitive design, eh Dennis?  Sounds awesome!  Murphy and Salk never cease to amaze me!

[Big Red Machine]

The Wyred is perfectly capable to drive the speakers.  Overdriving shouldn't happen if you watch the accelerator!

[Warpdrv]

E-mailing Jim usually yields the best answers.  I bet he'll be able to help you out, bro.  Otherwise I am sure the HT2 TL will fit the bill.  I suppose if anyone is up to finding their limits it's you.    Seriously, though, the anechoic sensitivity of the Studio 100 v.4's you have is 88dB, which is 1dB less than what the HT2 TL's are rated.  So if nothing else they'd just about be as sensitive, and in room you might gain a dB or two? 

So a super high sensitive design, eh Dennis?  Sounds awesome!  Murphy and Salk never cease to amaze me!

Thanks buddy...     but part of the difference with the Studio's your spreading the load over multiple drivers to absorb the power as well....   my question on the HT2s is how long before that smell starts     The Studio's as well as my Sigs on the D-Sonic have really taken some abuse and still keep tickin...

[greenhouseman]

I have an HT2 5.1 system (HT2 L&R, HTC center, HT1 surrounds) with 2 MFW 15's--- a great system for movies and music --- this system was purchased before the TL version was introduced. I have many times contemplated upgrading to the TL's but i am happy with its performance as is. It will play outrageously loud and with your subs i would gather to say that the extra bass extension of the HT2 TL's will not be an issue. The HTC is a great center channel that does a wonderful job with movie dialogue and the HT1 surrounds though overkill for most movie apps really shine on multi-channel music. Having heard both models, The TL version is quite an improvement over the standard HT2's in 2 channel but for multi channel music and movies the 2's in your situation would be more than adequate----just a student in a sea of professors- --eric

[Nuance]

E-mailing Jim usually yields the best answers.  I bet he'll be able to help you out, bro.  Otherwise I am sure the HT2 TL will fit the bill.  I suppose if anyone is up to finding their limits it's you.    Seriously, though, the anechoic sensitivity of the Studio 100 v.4's you have is 88dB, which is 1dB less than what the HT2 TL's are rated.  So if nothing else they'd just about be as sensitive, and in room you might gain a dB or two? 

So a super high sensitive design, eh Dennis?  Sounds awesome!  Murphy and Salk never cease to amaze me!

Thanks buddy...     but part of the difference with the Studio's your spreading the load over multiple drivers to absorb the power as well....   my question on the HT2s is how long before that smell starts     The Studio's as well as my Sigs on the D-Sonic have really taken some abuse and still keep tickin...

This is true.  Dennis and Jim could probably best give an answer to that.

Shoot Jim an e-mail or give him a call.  He's a very cool guy.  The cool thing is I will able to partake in your upgrade (helping you set up and what not I mean), no matter which manufacturer you go with.  Audio/video is too fun!

[Warpdrv]

This is true.  Dennis and Jim could probably best give an answer to that.

Shoot Jim an e-mail or give him a call.  He's a very cool guy.  The cool thing is I will able to partake in your upgrade (helping you set up and what not I mean), no matter which manufacturer you go with.  Audio/video is too fun!

Agreed, we need to set aside a day this week to replace the SMS and setting up the DCX with my subs....   Monday afternoon? or Tues I'm off..

One of the limiting issues for me is the footprint - If I really wanted something with ridiculous output and no thoughts towards aesthetics I would likely go with something like the Seaton Catalysts...  they are amazing and will pretty much accomplish my goal of blowing womens clothes off with ease But my need to have something tall and narrow as well as more pleasing to the eyes is of top concern and the Catalysts are just too big.

Needless to say if I am here, that SQ is def of the utmost importance as well, that is the beauty of Salk products and pretty much goes completely without saying, and I was certainly astounded with the looks as well...   Terry's sharkskin HT2-TL's and Brandons Rosewood ST's are both some of the best finishes I have seen, and the delicate sound of the ribbons really stands out in my mind. I have no qualms thinking I would be more then thrilled with them.

I'm sure some of you guys prob think I'm pretty ridiculous, I guess having to work with a room size of this magnitude places things in a different league...

[rahimlee54]

I am not trying to discourage a Salk purchase, but if SPL is what you want Mark Seaton.  Although he doesn't have the finishes, and I have never heard them so I cant comment on that.

[Warpdrv]

Thanks rahimlee54, sorry I was editing my post, but yes I have heard the Catalysts but their enormous stature is beyond something I could fit in my setup....   But they are truly amazing in both SQ and output...

[Advent75]

Talk w/Jim 'bout specs for pic below.
IMG_0088.JPG

[Nuance]

^ The pic didn't show. 

[Warpdrv]

 

[Nuance]

Here is the pic he wanted shared:



VERY nice! 

[funkmonkey]

^^^Looks like a front ported HTC.  About the same height as the standard sealed version, but a fair bit wider.

With all those subs to handle the bass, Warp, I wouldn't be too concerned with anything below 60-80Hz.  If I remember correctly you use them for music as well as movies, right? Maybe the HT1s make sense for you...  To my eyes, the HT3s would fit fine.  They are only a couple of inches wider than the HT2s or your current Paradigms...  What ever you decide I am sure it will achieve your goal =).  Good luck with the upgrade, Patrick.  Or should we call you Marty?

[Warpdrv]

Thanks Funk...   

Yeah the bass output from the Subs is spectacular - crossed over at 100 - 110, I'm getting some wicked punch - movie experience is phenomenal in here...  Music is pretty darn good, but could be better....   

The highs are a bit bright, lookin to tame that down with a much smoother sound...

You can call me Marty...