[DanTheMan]

Dan - I bet the doctor told you to take it easy. Do as you are told. Busy is not necessarily a virtue. It can be a debilitating distraction. We are human beings - not human doings. Meditate!

Yes She did and I will.  2 days ago I didn't and the pain became unbearable and the wound was all inflamed.    So I'll listen now and it's looking and feeling much better.  I may be slow, but I'm not completely stupid.

Dan

[doug s.]

You can't EQ a polar response unless it's the same deviation at every angle.  Making this crossover is sort of like squeezing a baloon as Zilch says.    You can flatten it at one angle, but a bubble will pop up somewhere else.  The only thing a device like that would help me with is the 9 and 12k dips.  I think I may well know what the problem is there, but it isn't offensive so I'm not too worried about it at present.  Right now I just want to spend a lot of time listening to music.  It's been a week since my stereo has been fully operational.

Dan

well, your response looks like the dips are pretty consistent, regardless of the angle.  seems if you could use a deqx-type dewice to take care of it on-axis, then it would also be better off-axis...

doug s.

[DanTheMan]

well, your response looks like the dips are pretty consistent, regardless of the angle.  seems if you could use a deqx-type dewice to take care of it on-axis, then it would also be better off-axis...

doug s.

Before getting the crossover as correct as I have, only at the 8-9 and 12kHz dips were the same.  Actually that's still the same.  Now it may help a little that they are closer to consistent and it is something to consider, but results may not be optimal.

Look at this crossover made mostly with the intent of getting to axial response as flat as possible in the crossover region.  Keep in mind that there are still filters in place to smooth the off axis response as well.  It's much uglier w/o them.



Cool thing was that this wasn't too offensive, but smoothing one axis only is unlikely to help the whole picture.  What I've got now is just better.  At this point the DEQX may be just a sideways step or worse or possibly better.  It's a guess.  In that graph and others the DEQX could help the 8-9 and 12kHz dips and the 500-600 hz bump.  I think I'd still rather solve the issues there as well instead of band aiding them.  This reminds me an old German saying,  "If the rooster crows on the donkey's back, the weather will stay the same ............... or it will be different."

Dan

[macrojack]

Knock it off, Doug. Dan needs to rest up for now. He's convalescing.

[DanTheMan]

Knock it off, Doug. Dan needs to rest up for now. He's convalescing.

And ever so slowly!

[doug s.]

dan, i am not the only one who thinks the deqx is the farthest thing from a band-aid.  active x-overs rule, imo, and the deqx is simply taking things to another level.

ymmv,

doug s.

[macrojack]

I have to agree with Doug on this. I am using a dbx Drive Rack PA which I have learned is an entry level product. It works pretty well but quieter, more flexible and more precise options exist. So, having learned that, I hastened to purchase an XTA DP 224 and promptly learned that I could drown in it. This thing supposes a level of computer competence to which I shall never attain. I'm currently seeking someone who can set and calibrate it for me. Unfortunately, where I live, I may as well be seeking people who knew Ben Franklin personally. Everywhere I call, including our local college, I find the same blank stares. Is there anyone out there in AC land who can bring me a remedy?

[DanTheMan]

dan, i am not the only one who thinks the deqx is the farthest thing from a band-aid.  active x-overs rule, imo, and the deqx is simply taking things to another level.

ymmv,

doug s.

I do not think the DEQX is just a band aid.  It has legitimate uses, but what I've posted isn't one of them and I showed why though maybe I didn't go into enough detail.  To fix what it can about my posted polar response would just be band aiding the problem.  IOW just covering up a problem to make a pretty picture.  I'd rather cure the disease.  Otherwise it may present another issue.  There's a problem in the throat that may well be rearing its head in the form of the treble's double dip.  So for that ailment it would be a band aid that may actually worsen the effects of the discontinuities.  The 600Hz thing I haven't really looked closely at yet, but my last crossover did minimize it dramatically.  My other response deviations are not the same at every angle, so it may or may not improve the problems.  Nothing I've done would lead me to think it would actually help and would probably do some damage.  Two of them could be used to help.  It could do wonders for my bass response and everyone's for that matter, but I didn't post them and they need to be done in room.  I could also use it to boost my response out to 20 kHz.

I'm certainly not saying that the DEQX is a bad thing and I agree with you on active crossovers and the DEQXs place among them.

I have to agree with Doug on this. I am using a dbx Drive Rack PA which I have learned is an entry level product. It works pretty well but quieter, more flexible and more precise options exist. So, having learned that, I hastened to purchase an XTA DP 224 and promptly learned that I could drown in it. This thing supposes a level of computer competence to which I shall never attain. I'm currently seeking someone who can set and calibrate it for me. Unfortunately, where I live, I may as well be seeking people who knew Ben Franklin personally. Everywhere I call, including our local college, I find the same blank stares. Is there anyone out there in AC land who can bring me a remedy?

I agree with Doug's last post as well though I can see where my previous post might make a person think otherwise.  For that I apologize.  I know it's hard to just read and not read into a post.  My philosophy is that you should get everything else as correct as possible before you go to digital parametric equalization.   The XTA DP 224 sounds interesting.  Never even heard of it before, but it is something I'm interested in now.  Maybe someone else will chime in here or perhaps start a thread on it.

Dan

[macrojack]

Dan - I bought my XTA from a guy named Matt Lindsley in Amarillo, TX. He was selling them on e-bay. Perhaps he still has some. It is a discontinued item from XTA but you can find the manual for it on their website.

[DanTheMan]

XTA makes some really nice gear.  However I think I'll stick to the Behringer d/t its availability and plenty of others who could help me when, not if, I get stuck.

Dan

[macrojack]

Here's a consideration for horns. Mine are 109 db efficient. My woofers are about 100 db. I listen no louder than about 85 db, except for movies which I've never measured.
So, in checking with the factory about the difference between my Parasound A-23 amps with the bigger A-21 amp, I learned that the input stage is identical and the driver and output topology are the same. The reason they sound somewhat different is the A-21 operates in Class A to 10 watts whereas the A-23 operates in Class A for only the first 2.75 watts.
So, if my math and my assumptions are correct, I would never leave Class A operation except perhaps during films where a small dropoff in fidelity would go unnoticed. I'm quite eager to get the pieces together.

[MartinV56]

I think here is better




My horn systems

My other horn system




More horns
http://www.hifichile.cl/index.php?/topic/921-horns/page__st__600#entry111531

[mgalusha]

Very cool looking. 

I think here is better



My horn systems

[J-Pak]

Giving this dormant topic a bump. Anyone else have any further experiences?

I am thinking about giving Olson's Le Cleac'h implementation a try ("recently" information for a dual woofer version was posted), but would really prefer to audition them first. Slooooow trickle of updates in the DiyA thread 

[rajacat]

Check out these reasonably priced waveguide/horns @ http://www.diysoundgroup.com/plastic-seos-12.html.
Here's the main thread dealing with the huge SEOS group buy.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1291022/hey-guys-we-need-a-little-rallying-here
Another interesting link to a mega diy SEOS/ IWATA waveguide project.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1490928/big-horns-experiments-ae-td15m-ae-td15h-seos24-iwata-300-jbl-beryllium-bms

..Roy

[eso]

This is a very old thread, but lots of old memories in here.

I started with horns when I bought a pair of early VOTT A5s in 1999. Then I met Bruce Edgar...

I spent some time in the early '00s helping Bruce in his shop during which time I got a firsthand opportunity to learn is design approach. I also started designing and building my own experiments.

My current system, and hopefully the last one. Still many details but it's coming together: