I've reached the pinnacle - where do I go now?

audiojerry · « **on:** 6 Jan 2004, 02:37 pm »

I'm selling my Audio Valve preamp, and Byteme has asked some questions about it. His second question encouraged me to consider more thoroughly why I've been in a selling mode lately, so I thought it might be useful (or maybe good for a few laughs) to post my long winded reply to him here.

Quote from: byteme

Two more questions - does the remote operate the input selection? Second, is the Mini the sonic equal of the audiovalve and your just trying to save some dollars or is the Mini actually better sounding?

The remote controls input selection, volume, mute, and stand-by.
Is the Mini the sonic equal of the AV? They do not sound exactly the same, but when I put the Telefunkens from the AV into the Mini, they sound very, very similar. I'd say that the Mini may be a little more transparent, and the AV has a little more weight and body. I've A/B'd them several times just to make sure I was making the right decision, and I have a hard time hearing the differences, except for the noise factor. The AV is definitely quieter. The Mini sounds so good, that I don't think I will miss the AV other than the convenience of the remote.

The main reason I'm selling is that I like the Ridge Street wire so much, and I can't justify investing any more money on my system, so I'm willing to sacrifice in one area (the preamp) to benefit in another (the wire) without sacrificing overall sonic performance. I've made a commitment that any component changes I make will not result in any additional cost. That's why I'm still considering selling my Audio Research VT200 if I can find a less expensive amp that still satisfies. The Sony AVD-C700ES was part of my endeavor to save money. That didn't quite work out. The Sony did allow me to experience multi-channel SACD, which offers an exciting enhancement to the music listening experience, but it helped me decide that I don't need to go there. I now know that 2 channel is where I will stay and be perfectly happy. My next effort at saving money may be the Solar Fusion digital amp. I'd love to try Hugh's Aspen amps, but I'd have to convince my engineer son to help me build it, and I guess Frank of AVA will have nothing to do with me.

I believe that I have gotten about as far as I can towards achieving the best possible sonics for me personally. I'm still going to stay in the game, but now that I have my reference for great sonics, my goals are now redirecting towards achieving this same level of performance for less dollars. It should be fun. As I examine my reasons, I think a lot has been motivated by concerns over job security.

I believe this website has made that goal reachable because of the excellent commercial members we have, and the great opportunities they have offered to us.

zybar · « **Reply #1 on:** 6 Jan 2004, 02:58 pm »

Jerry,

Great write up.

I had a local dealer who did carry the Audio Valve for a while, but stopped b/c it didn't have enough name recognition (just like my Kora amps).

I currently have the AVA T7 preamp, but I have this feeling that it is the weak link in my system. Accordingly, I am trying to decide what to do.

Right now I have on my short list the Bent Passive, MiniMax, and possibly upgrading the T7.

I would love to have remote capabilities, but since I haven't had it in a long time I can probably continue to live without it.

GW

Carlman · « **Reply #2 on:** 6 Jan 2004, 04:15 pm »

I'm in the same boat of keeping a net zero balance of audio equipment. If I sell something, that's my budget for new gear. I feel I've put together a huge value system right now. I had one before but, the speakers were a bit pricey.... and I moved rooms causing me to re-do a few things. I didn't need to replace the preamp but, I wanted to. I didn't know if it was the weak link and I wanted to find out. In retrospect, the AI was fine, just needed some diagnostic work to find out why it was going through tubes so fast. I didn't have the resources to figure it out either.

In any case, one thing that will remain constant in my system is the AKSA amp. It does no wrong. It's fast, detailed, and versatile. It's held its own and bested the 5 or 6 amps I've compared it to directly. I'd put it in Mark Levinson territory. You must get the Nirvana version to get the higher refinement, though. There may be an even higher upgrade soon.... which I'm looking forward to doing. You can get Hugh to do the hard parts... building the amp boards... which will dramatically reduce your time to operation.

It really says a lot about the RS cables to be switching gear to afford them. I know Tsunami was impressed with them as well. I guess I should try to get on that demo list.

Sounds like you're having fun. I enjoy this forum for the same reasons as you... and you get to learn a few things along the way!

JoshK · « **Reply #3 on:** 6 Jan 2004, 04:22 pm »

Been there, doing that. I turned towards details and DIY. Meaning, sometimes the best upgrade is fine tuning, room treatments, isolation, power, etc. I also am having quite a bit of fun with DIY and soon to start modding, although that isn't exactly free. I probably will spend quite a bit of money on parts upgrades but I feel that this is more fruitful endeavor. Selling gear to purchase new gear is usually a $$$ siphoning affair. Good luck and have fun.

nathanm · « **Reply #4 on:** 6 Jan 2004, 04:33 pm »

Hey Jerry why not sell both the preamp and the ARC for a sweet little Decware SE34-i? I know where you could pick one up in near-mint condition -- and it's Burned In! Go from a burning hot, electricity-gobbling mass of...er, whatever those power tubes are in the ARC, to a mere 4 EL34s and 3 other tubes I forgot the name of...less cost, less maintainence, more flexibility, chicks dig it...you can't lose!

byteme · « **Reply #5 on:** 6 Jan 2004, 07:19 pm »

Jerry,

Interesting thoughts, tough decisions! On the plus side of things, you've tasted the top! I think many, myself included, love to live vicarioiusly through your posts and descriptions while we try and build a similar high value - great sounding system, without ever knowing or handling the equipment you have. From the perspective of $$ - I guess that's a good thing. But who wouldn't have loved to been there and run the kind of things through their system that you have! Not to mention that sound!

Good luck on your quest!

Brian.

doug s. · « **Reply #6 on:** 7 Jan 2004, 03:48 pm »

jerry, here's yer amp - if i could afford it, so i could bi-amp, i woodn't be tellin' ya about it!

i don't feel any *need* to biamp, but i would sure like the overkill!

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?ampstube&1078421882

doug s.

audiojerry · « **Reply #7 on:** 7 Jan 2004, 04:33 pm »

Thanks for the advice on my next amp guys. I'm always open to suggestions, but there are some practical considerations that I adhere to.
I will try an unfamiliar new product only if I have the ability to return it. I can do this with the Solar Fusion (provided Kevin is still around

)
I will buy an unfamiliar used product only if I am confident I can easily resell it.
I will buy a familiar new or used product that I am confident I will like if the price is right.
Finally, it would have to be good enough to allow me part with my ARC.

With any used product like the Mesa Baron on A'gon, which I know only by reputation, I'd only take a chance on it if I had heard it in the past, and if the seller had an established audiogon transaction history, or if I were able to personally visit the seller to check the item out. None of the above is true.

I've had great success buying and selling on A'gon, but that's because I've stuck with products that have wide appeal. It's very difficult to sell something that is not well known, even when it is an exceptional product. My Audiovalve is a case in point. I bought it new, and realized it was not very well known, but after auditioning it I was bowled over and I thought it was something I'd keep forever. duh.

jackman · « **Reply #8 on:** 7 Jan 2004, 05:04 pm »

Quote

I've reached the pinnacle - where do I go now?

[/size]

I wake up every day, look in the mirror and say the same exact thing! Jerry, best of luck with your search. Remember, this is FUN. I don't know why, but I see you (someday) with a system that consists of a high quality flea powered SET amp and a pair of very efficient speakers like the Edgarhorns or a good TL design. Call me crazy but it seems a lot of audio purists wind up in this camp.

Also, what do you mean if Kevin is still around? It seems that he is committed to this venture. His product sounded VERY good with your speakers. I'd love to hear it in your new system. Will bring the T7R to compare with that Minimax. I'm also going to test the Minimax preamp and CDP..oh, and the amp, when the owner gets back from CES. I just bought a RAM Signature CDP with Bybees and the full monty. Looking forward to messing around with it and comparing it to the minimax (brand?) CDP when it's available.

Jack

audiojerry · « **Reply #9 on:** 7 Jan 2004, 05:10 pm »

Quote

I just bought a RAM Signature CDP with Bybees and the full monty.

Tell us more about this, you crazy animal

jackman · « **Reply #10 on:** 7 Jan 2004, 05:18 pm »

Got a great deal from a guy in Canada. It's en route and should be here by the end of the week or the weekend at least. It was too good a deal to pass up. I have heard Dan Wright's work on your P3A and was very impressed. The RAM has a tube output and lots of cool stuff. I'll keep you posted on how it sounds as soon as I get it in. Need to sell off some of my stuff to make room. Have the Delta on Audiogon and need to decide on what to do with my Smart DIO. It's tough because the DIO is sounding so good on my system. Wayne at Boldercable.com has been awesome with his customer service and has installed some additional shielding and larger caps to the DIO. It really sounds great but I was hoping tubes would be a step up. Although it's a bit of a risk, I got such a great deal on the Ram that it was a chance worth taking.

Cheers,

Jack

doug s. · « **Reply #11 on:** 7 Jan 2004, 07:51 pm »

Quote from: audiojerry

...With any used product like the Mesa Baron on A'gon, which I know only by reputation, I'd only take a chance on it if I had heard it in the past, and if the seller had an established audiogon transaction history, or if I were able to personally visit the seller to check the item out. None of the above is true...quote]

i cannot argue w/any of these points, jerry. all i can say is this is a relatively easy sell on the used market.

i tink it's someting ya mite like cuz of its infinite adjustability. and, it is a wery neutral amp, considering it's tubed. i lost no dynamics, drive, extension, etc, when i switched from my s/s electrocompaniet amps... go to mesa's website for info on the adjustability of this bebe...

doug s.

Carlman · « **Reply #12 on:** 7 Jan 2004, 07:57 pm »

I had the same criteria when I was buying an amp which ruled out the AKSA... I mean, who'd buy a used kit amp? I was interested in a Pass Labs, Krell, Bel Canto, and McCormack.

Then I posted to the AKSA forum... I got several replies saying it'd be easy to sell right here on AC. Don't rule it out! I'm glad I didn't. If the AKSA ends up being a finalist, it'd be worth a post or 2 to the AKSA forum to clear up any doubts.

rosconey · « **Reply #13 on:** 7 Jan 2004, 09:51 pm »

nice cd jackman-i saw that at agon the other day-
cant wait to get down state to bills and hear one

even if we never have the outside the roach hole (nyc) get together i plan on making a trip when some $ shows up that isnt spoken for

Rocket · « **Reply #14 on:** 8 Jan 2004, 12:04 am »

Hi Audiojerry,

If you're after another amplifier to play with i'll second carlman's recommendation for the aksa. if you have relatively efficient speakers 90db and the speakers don't dip below 3.6 ohms then the aksa 55 (with nirvana upgrade) is the way to go. if not the aksa 100 is a little more expensive.

It would probably cost you less than $700us to build which would include the kit, 2 transformers and the cost of a chassis (btw there are some really neat looking ones available from the us).

I originally had an n.e.w. dc-66 (battery amp) which had a fault with the recharge circuit and it fried my brand new batteries ($560au). i was that disappointed and didn't want to spend a dime on the amp to repair it i decided to built the aksa kitset.

Out of the blocks i thought the aksa was better in all areas except the last bit of refinement in the top end. i bought the nirvana upgrade and was really impressed with the improvement, the upgrade improves the overall sound by 15 -20%. The aksa is definitely a better amp than my n.e.w. (rrp was $3000us/$6500au, which btw is still sitting at the dealers after 1 year).

Recently a couple of guys from the aksa forum had a shoot out with the ampzilla and it was favourably compared with it. lastly the aksa is serious tweakable and it looks like hugh is going to offer another upgrade to the amp.

Best wishes

rocket

Rocket · « **Reply #15 on:** 8 Jan 2004, 12:14 am »

Hi Jackman,

I don't think you will be disappointed with Dan's work as he is very good at modding equipment.

I had a perpetual technologies p3a (stock) and bought a level 1 modwright version and compared the 2 dacs. Dan's improvements were so good that it doesn't sound anything like the stock version of the p3a.

I'm going to upgrade it to level 2 in the middle of the year.

regards

rocket

jackman · « **Reply #16 on:** 8 Jan 2004, 12:21 am »

Rocket, I agree, Dan's work on the P3A led me to getting this player. Plus Bill Baker was awesome at answering my questions in a no-BS kind of way. I'd look at his amps if my speakers were more efficient. Don't get me wrong, I love my current gear but always like to try new things.

The RAM CDP looks like a great player. I can't believe the amount of modding that went into this player (see the Response site!). I like having tubes in the output and Bybees. If it sounds close to the modded P3A's I have heard I'll be very happy.

Jack

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #17 on:** 8 Jan 2004, 12:41 am »

Jerry, due to the nature of a 'pinnacle', you only can stay where you are or lower.

Try hard to stay where you are if you're happy..it is all too often fleeting, brother!

BikeWNC · « **Reply #18 on:** 8 Jan 2004, 01:05 am »

It's well documented that as we age our hearing ages also. Perhaps Jerry is just owning up to the fact that he's no young buck with the ears to match!

Why have the pinnacle rig when a transistor radio sounds the same? (No offense to any of the gear manufacturer's mentioned in this thread. I'm just yankin his chain.)

Is that what your really saying?

DVV · « **Reply #19 on:** 8 Jan 2004, 07:12 am »

Quote from: Tsunami

It's well documented that as we age our hearing ages also. Perhaps Jerry is just owning up to the fact that he's no young buck with the ears to match!

Why have the pinnacle rig when a transistor radio sounds the same? (No offense to any of the gear manufacturer's mentioned in this thread. I'm just yankin his chain.)

Is that what your really saying?

Add consumer saturation to the list. After many years of trying out things, one reaches a point where one can no longer be sure what is what. Acoustic memory is reliable for 15-20 minutes only, which is why straight A/B tests make so much sense.

I think we all come to a point sometime, somewhere, where we start to eschew gear and get back to the true essentials of it, which is music as such. These days, I am more excited with recorded material than with electronics, and I find it takes a lot more than it used to to raise the adrenalin level. These days, I am lucky to hear one thing inside a year which will REALLY make me wish I had it. Too much hype, too many people after my money.

In 2002, it was my speakers - so I bought a pair. I knew then as I do now that there are better speakers out there, heck, I could name a few myself (e.g. JMLab/Focal's Mezzo Utopia, Grand Utopia, B&W 802, etc), but however I looked at it, the current set beats most up to twice its price, so they will continue to sit there.

Next, it was my Karan integrated amp, the KA-i180. In conjunction with the above speakers, I got what is essentially a SET sound without any tube and with some power (2x180/270W into 8/4 ohms). I have had sworn tube cruisaders come in and envy me (if only just a little

).

But still, overall, I will jump up like a few days ago when I ran across a really great The Animals compilation of old hits, or a few weeks ago, when I ran across a Three Dog Night compilation.

O Tempora, O Mores.

Cheers,
DVV