New V3 users chime in

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paularthur

Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #20 on: 10 Nov 2009, 11:54 pm »

Power in general and the R9SE:
It was amazing to hear the system come together over the course of this listening session.  I cannot express the importance of keeping, at least transistor, components on all the time.  Interestingly, my tube gear does not exhibit the dramatic transformation I heard with the 9?s.  Generally, I find the LAMM, Artemis and Music Reference sound right in less than an hour.  Once fully broken in of course.

I think this has more to do with the power cord and speaker cables used rather than the Ref9 in general.   What takes shape during the power-on is that the dielectrics slowly re-orientates/polarizes.   WIth thicker dielectric, they simply takes longer to fully polarizes.   We used regular factory AC cords and Nuforce Focused Field, and I can hear the sound changes within 1 track (the P9 and CDP are always left on).  There are also no big reservoir capacitors in Nuforce products, unlike regular Class A amps (with capacitors as large as coke cans) to charge up.

Casey

Casey presented an explanation as to why I heard what I had reported.  In retrospect I realized my comments were actually for the entire system going through warm-up.  This caused me to think about the entirety of the system as I described what I heard.  I concluded there were many things I had not taken into account with regard to my comment on the 9?s need for a long warm-up.

I have now revisited this and have come to the most unbiased conclusion I am capable.  Let me set the stage.  I left all electronics on and playing for no less than 24 hours except for the amps and the Lamm pre-amp.  I fired up the Lamm three hours prior to auditioning the system but left the amps off.  My hopes were to take all the other components out of the warm up process.  Let me also preface with the system in which the evaluation took place:

The material was Loreena McKennitt Nights from the Alhambra.  A live recording at this venue in Spain.  All components have had no less than 250 hours and some considerably more break in time.  The source was the MSB Platinum Reference CD III Station with Purist Audio Design (PAD) Aqueous Anniversary AC cord and PAD Proteus Provectus single ended interconnect.  The Lamm LL2 served as the pre-amp.  It has the PAD Purist Anniversary AC cord and JPS Labs Aluminata interconnects.  Power amps are the Nu Force RSEv3 with JPS Labs Aluminata AC cords.  All electronics s are powered by a PS Audio Power Plant Premiere with a JPS Labs Aluminata AC power cord into a brand new generic wall outlet.  Speakers are supplied by PAD Proteus Provectus bi-wire cable to the Analysis Reference external X-over to which the Analysis Audio Omega Reference full range ribbon speakers are connected by Analysis Audio pure silver jumpers.

Initial impression:  The system was quite constrained in all dimensions.  In particular, it sounded as if I were listening with the performers at the end of a long tunnel.  Not reverberant but an image with the corners shaved off the hall and two dimensional.  Instruments were merged together in their presentation across a flat horizontal field.  There was no ?air? or fine detail.  Frequency extremes were significantly truncated.  Loreena?s voice had a pasty quality without any depth and a noticeable suppression of accurate sibilance.

This continued slowly becoming somewhat more transparent at about the 30 minute mark.  By the end of disc one (55 minutes) bass was returning but still poorly articulated and her voice began to take on a more transparent quality though lacking in body.  Sibilance had a much more real character.

Transparency continued to develop the image but there was a clear lack of depth and the midrange continued to be lacking in body across all the instruments and voice.  By the end of the second playing of disc one (about 1 ? hours of play time) bass had substantially returned, was well defined and the hall had gained a more lifelike perspective.  It now had edges but three dimensionality was still lacking.

About 1/3 into the third playing of the disc (approximately 2 hours) her voice had gained much of its sonority, the hall was becoming quite clear and instrumentation began to be easily identified in space and time.  Individual lines of the intricately woven instrumentation was becoming obvious but still lacking in the three dimensionality I know this system is capable of.

By the end of the disc and then starting over through the first few songs the hall had become large and was now separated from the speakers.  Loreena?s voice had a quality of a woman before you.  The instrumentation was alive and vibrant.  At this point I left the room.

I returned as the forth playing began (about three and half hours of continuous play now).  The system had returned to its pinnacle.  The players were clearly described in space and the instruments had body and texture.  The hall was laid out clearly before me in height, depth and width.  This is a truly exciting performance and when the system is right I?m swept up in the vibrancy of the sound and exhilaration of the performance.  It took about three hours or so to achieve this. 

I cannot say if it is the speaker cables or AC cord as suggested.  There is no way to test this and turn the amps off.  But, if so, it remains the case that a warm-up is certainly warranted whatever the ?actual? reason.  I conclude and reiterate, leave the amps and everything else, except tube gear, on for the best sound.

Good listening,
Paul
P.A.U.L
www.precisionaudioonline.com

rustydoglim

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Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #21 on: 11 Nov 2009, 02:41 pm »
If you leave everything warm up and then try listening again the next day, does it make any difference?
Another variable could be a cold room and may be the speaker needs warming up?

mcullinan

Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #22 on: 11 Nov 2009, 03:27 pm »
Are there tubes in your system? It takes mine about a half hour before sounding its best.  Im sure after upgrading the new board takes a few weeks of regular playing to break in. Mine are in for an upgrade so I should have some opinions soon.
Mike

paularthur

Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #23 on: 11 Nov 2009, 04:12 pm »
Jason, hello!  And Casey as well!

It is certainly possible the speaker needs warming but they are ribbon/magnetic planers.  With their extremely low mass I doubt that is a significant factor.  As for the room temp. I have experienced this in all seasons including blistering summer months.  And one other observation: Casey mentioned he performed his evaluation with stock AC power cords.   Irrespective of interconnects, this is the single most important upgrade one can perform with the R9SE amps.  With the right AC cord I will confidently insert this amp into any good system in comparison to amps costing three to four times its moaderate $5000 price tag.  In a system, synergistically assembled, it will consistently walk away the winner in nearly everything that is important for producing a live experience in the home environment.   I wouldn?t dream of this with the stock AC cords.

Did it change some time later?  Maybe the next day?  Actually I had intended to add a follow up.  After writing this evaluation, which took nearly an hour, I went back up to the listening room and guess what?  The system had improved yet again.  It now had the see through, whole cloth quality I most prize in this system and to which I attribute much to the Nu Force R9SE amps.  After all, I use them in my $100,000 plus Reference system!   There was now palpability to the ensemble.  Honestly, it brings tears to my eyes to listen to a performance of this caliper and the stories told in songs like Loreena McKennitt?s with this level of reproduction.  The entire system had been playing continuously now for well over 4 hours.  As before, when listening to Swan Lake, there was a subtle but very significant change in the rendering of the gestalt that occurred sometime after the four hour mark.

As for my experience with equipment warm up; this is consistent over time, in different room installations, at any time of year and with all components.  Some require longer time than others, as I noted before, but virtually nothing I?ve heard in a well designed audio system sounds right immediately after turn on.  I stand by my conclusion and invite others to spend the time to discover when their system gels and report back.  I must stress, the level of change can be dramatically, more or less, apparent depending on how well the system has been synergistically assembled.  The better the synergy of all the components, i.e.  electronics?, all the cables, AC supply, etc., the more real the sound field created  and the easier to identify changes over time as well as when substituting other components for that matter.  And let?s not forget about room interactions.  Remember, lower volumes will excite nodes to a lesser extent and therefore give a better picture of the system.

And on a side note:  ?Synergy?.  When done with a keen ear, a good sense of reality and with the ego placed far away, a system of modest cost can be assembled to reproduce a stunning experience of a live event.  Ah but the trick, however, is to listen without prejudice.  I often have customer?s bring a significant, or not so significant other, when auditioning equipment.  Especially cables.  It can be both hard to justify their relative expense as well as the opposite expectation of ?more expensive is necessarily better?.  I have rarely found this to be true.  An uninterested individual, the ?other? will give a much more accurate report of the differences in components as they are not invested in the process or equipment.  This does not guarantee accuracy or compatibility but it offers a relatively unbiased window into the effective changes.  Something to think about when making a component decision.

Well that?s it for now!

Good listening,
Paul
P.A.U.L.
www.precisionaudioonline.com

twist22

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Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #24 on: 12 Nov 2009, 11:56 am »
Jason,
If we are upgrading from the V2SE to V3 SE does the upgrade come with the new SE front plate or is it similar to the existing flatter front plates ?

mcullinan

Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #25 on: 12 Nov 2009, 01:12 pm »
On the site it says you get the new faceplate.
Mike

paularthur

Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #26 on: 12 Nov 2009, 02:26 pm »
Mike,

You do get a new faceplate with RSEv3 emblazoned in red on it but not the new Stealth faceplate.  It is availbel but quite expensive.

It is very cool looking but your system's allocated money can be much more wisely spent, in my humble opinion.

Good listening,
Paul
P.A.U.L.
www.precisionaudioonline.com

rustydoglim

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Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #27 on: 13 Nov 2009, 06:45 am »
We said new faceplate but didn't say "different styling" face plate.
The stealth looking face plate is slightly taller and require different mounting mechanism.
So, the entire chassis has to be replaced. Whoa! That would mean a complete replacement!!!
It is the same as selling your old amp and go buy a new one.

Spend the extra $ on a set of Magic Cube. You know we have money back guarantee.

beachbum

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Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #28 on: 18 Nov 2009, 01:47 pm »
My amps arrived yesterday along with some of Caseys ICs and speaker cables. Got all wired and playing, right out of the box i like what i am hearing. A nice wide stage with depth. Very listenable in fact i was up late spinning records. Will post more after the 100 hr mark.
Mike

Welborne

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Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #29 on: 18 Nov 2009, 08:06 pm »
My Ia-7 v3 arrived 3 weeks ago and I am right now having it burned in. So far I find the sound mellow and the top end seems to roll of a bit (compared to IA-7 v2). I start to miss the high resolution of my IA-7 v2. The problem is, however, that the IA-7 v2 I have was a second hand one and the previous owner had them run in before passing it to me, so I never know how it sounded when it was new too. This moment is the first time I experience with a brand new Nuforce amp (brand new board anyway). Will the burn in make a hugh difference in the top end?

Now I guess my set is into its 16 hours or so. :duh:

rustydoglim

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Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #30 on: 19 Nov 2009, 12:15 pm »
IA7V3 has two big cap and will take longer time to break-in than 9V3SE.  Is this a new IA7V3 or upgraded from V2?

Welborne

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Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #31 on: 19 Nov 2009, 01:24 pm »
IA7V3 has two big cap and will take longer time to break-in than 9V3SE.  Is this a new IA7V3 or upgraded from V2?

I sent my ia-7 v2 for upgrade, but i think they returned a brand new IA-7 v3. I am  happy about this. But is this why it will take longer time to burn in? At this moment it does not sound anywhere near the IA-7 v2 before the transplant.  :roll: :roll:

nuforce-casey

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Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #32 on: 19 Nov 2009, 11:01 pm »
I sent my ia-7 v2 for upgrade, but i think they returned a brand new IA-7 v3. I am  happy about this. But is this why it will take longer time to burn in? At this moment it does not sound anywhere near the IA-7 v2 before the transplant.  :roll: :roll:

How many hours on the IA7V3?


Welborne

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Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #33 on: 20 Nov 2009, 04:20 am »
now only about 12-16 hours since it has arrived.

nuforce-casey

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Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #34 on: 21 Nov 2009, 12:16 am »
First non-official review of V3 by Mike Silverton:

http://www.stereotimes.com/comRN112009.shtml


beachbum

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Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #35 on: 21 Nov 2009, 05:01 pm »
Mike does not reveal his pre amp i wonder if its a tubed unit. He also does not list how many hours before his findings. I m approaching the 50 hrs mark and the first impression i posted above, a wide deep soundstage has now included very firm taunt bass. The mid and upper regions have not changed hardly, there sounds are very warm. The speed and super black back ground are very present. With my breaking in of Caseys Focused Field ICs and speaker cables also they could be playing a part in what i m hearing. Like in the first hours i can listen for long periods fully enjoy the music and get a good handle on the changes heard.
Mike

neutralos

Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #36 on: 22 Nov 2009, 02:38 pm »
I start to miss the high resolution of my IA-7 v2. The problem is, however, that the IA-7 v2 I have was a second hand one and the previous owner had them run in before passing it to me, so I never know how it sounded when it was new too.



Hi Welborne, don?t understand me wrong and I think I am allowed to evaluate you a bit,
you seem to me a bit unpatient regarding sucess in audio experiences.

Don?t hurry please. I found in 10 hours yet that this new board is more mellow and better tuned in all high end disciplines than the V2. And the sibilances appear at both boards if feeded with bad
CD recordings. Take for example the "essential" CD from Yello und you will get into highend heaven.
Punch, control, rhythm, details, 3-D soundstage and without any distortion at any vol. levels.


Or let me tell you about another new expericence with this board and believe me you will find and discover many new things:

I listened to an ordinary mp3 file ("menater" from hall & oates). In the end of track you listen to
saxophon solo in the left area. This time the solo was split into a foreground and a background appearing which flows into the wide deep, drops and dissapears from the soundstage. I cannot remember me that I listened to this track in any time with any equipment like that.
The whole mp3 CD sounded to me overall more fluid and balanced than with the V2.

So give them a bit more time or if possible for you: try another speakers (which are lower sensitivity). Don?t want to say that yours are bad ...

Welborne

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Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #37 on: 22 Nov 2009, 05:59 pm »
okay i will give it a try.

Is it safe to leave the nuforce ia-7 v3 on for a continous period of 24 hours, or shall I always switch "off" the amp by the switch at the back of the amp, or just press "off" on the remote control? I want to speed up the burn in period as I have been busy at work and did not have much time to listen to my amp for long hours each time like before. This really makes the burn in process taking longer than it should be...

JayDoubleU

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Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #38 on: 22 Nov 2009, 08:36 pm »
You can leave your Nuforce Amp on at all times. My R9SE V2's are on 24 hours, 7 days  a week, because they simply sound better than immediately after switching them on. Burning-in can be done very fast if you leave them repeating the same cd over and over at relatively low volumes, even when you're not at home. After my V2-upgrade it only took me four days before enjoying the wonderful sonics of the upgraded amps. I plan to repeat the same routine soon after upgrading to V3!

Happy listening!

beachbum

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Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #39 on: 22 Nov 2009, 09:22 pm »
An excellent cd for breakin is STS digital Burn-In CD cat #611138. Since 05 i havent turned of my ref 9s off, its is wise to have a spike type power unit for piece of mind.
Mike