New V3 users chime in

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beachbum

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New V3 users chime in
« on: 10 Oct 2009, 04:08 pm »
Hey new V3 users when you get your upgraded amps dialed in clue us with
differences between V2 and V3. Playing a classic reissue Crosby Stills Nash lp
now and the sound is clear, clean, powerful with finesse, pace and rock solid bass.
Looking forward to improving on that. In fact i've gone the upgrade path SE, V2, and have no doubt that V3 is going to be a step up in sound. Just how is whats got me curious.
Mike

rustydoglim

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Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #1 on: 13 Oct 2009, 11:26 am »
Most of the V2 boards from 1st production run went to distributors and dealers (half of those went to Japan and they don't read this English forum :)).  I think users feedback will only come out in November.

[Oppos, I meant V3]
« Last Edit: 14 Oct 2009, 09:28 pm by nuforce-jason »

beachbum

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Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #2 on: 14 Oct 2009, 05:32 pm »
Most of the V2 boards from 1st production run went to distributors and dealers (half of those went to Japan and they don't read this English forum :)).  I think users feedback will only come out in November.
Jason did you mean to say V3 in your quote above. I ve asked this in another post here but will ask again are the V3 boards here in the USA and are upgrades being preformed now.
Thanks for replying
Mike

rustydoglim

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Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #3 on: 14 Oct 2009, 09:30 pm »
Yes, we do have limited upgrades being performed now. Get on the queue so we can schedule it.

beachbum

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Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #4 on: 14 Oct 2009, 09:52 pm »
As soon as you get John the RMA# i will be sending my amps to you for V3. I m a everyday music enjoyer and its going to be very hard to be with out music for a period of time but as in the other upgrades done by you SE, V2 i know its going to be well worth the inconvenience. I want to thank you and Cassy for having the best upgrade plan in the audio world. Jason thanks for replying you will be getting my amps very soon.
Mike

cryotweaks

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Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #5 on: 6 Nov 2009, 11:49 pm »
Let me just say that the Nuforce V3 improves greatly after 150 hours on them.  When I plugged them in initially, they were much less 3 dimensional, much less smooth in the midrange, and the bass wasn't nearly as articulate. 

The interconnects need some serious break in too.  I let them both play 24 / 7 over the last week and they sound much better today.  They are indeed made for each other.

Welborne

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Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #6 on: 7 Nov 2009, 06:08 am »
my IA-7 v3 just came back from factory after the upgrade. now burning in, reports here later. :drool:

beachbum

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Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #7 on: 7 Nov 2009, 04:45 pm »
Hello cryotweaks and thanks for the info. I take it you also are using Nuforce ICs and Speaker wire. Let us know what improvements you are hearing as more hrs add up on your amps/wire.
I ve had a bit of bad luck sending my amps in for the upgrade. I used USPS priority mail and they got there in two days this past Wednesday so i could get a faster turnaround but the PO delivered them before Nuforce was open at 8:45 am on Wednesday and as i checked this morning my amps are still at the Post Office. Oh well good things come to those that wait.
Mike

paularthur

Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #8 on: 7 Nov 2009, 06:31 pm »
Many, many hours of break in are needed!!

Initial thoughts in discusion to a friend's inquiry:

(updated amps arrived 10/24)

Thu 10/29/2009 1:05 PM
They are coming along nicely now.  Be prepared however, they are shockingly bad right out of the box.  At least 100 hours are needed.  Mine have just over that now and they sound good.  I?ll do some serious listening tomorrow.
 

Fri 10/30/2009 10:32 AM
I moved the Kaptivator ($1500) off the Lamm and replaced it with the Purist Audio Purist Anniversary ($2900) AC cord.  MSB lost the Purist Anniversary power cord to the Lamm but got the Purist Audio Design Aqueous Anniversary AC cord instead.  This had been one of the final selections for the MSB before the amps went out.  Also went back to the Purist Audio Proteus Provectus interconnect on the MSB instead of the High Lamusika which goes back to the Artemis PH-1 phono amp.  The Proteus Provectus just gives better balance with the MSB.  The Kaptivator also went back to the Artemis.  That is until I can get an Aluminata AC for the PH 1.  That combo was amazing!

Man, I need a drink!

Fri 10/30/2009 12:50 PM
"Do you have a pair of V2s in the house to directly compare to?"

No but that?s a very tough call.  I?ve changed things around quite a bit.  Once I get the parts for the amp I?ll be more comfortable moving things around.  I need to put all the cables back to the way I had them with the v2 as well as take them off the EMF/MD Platforms. At that point I?ll be ready to evaluate them properly as well as the changes I?ve now made.

However, if I were to offer an opinion?no I need more time and so do they!  I guess that is an opinion so here goes:  Today is the first time they have started to sound like music again.  That was primarily do to the cable changes as before that change I was unsatisfied with the overall presentation.  It seemed somewhat disjointed.  The upper frequencies did not belong to the midrange.  This can be characteristic of the silver High Lamusika with some cable/electronics combinations.  When the amps were new these cables seemed to open them up a bit more than anything except for the balanced Proteus Provectus direct from the MSB.  Now, however, with more hours on the amp they are ?to much?.  The Acapella cables have a character that is great or awful.  No in-between.  I like them very much with the Artemis PH 1 and the Music Maker III.  Putting the Proteus Provectus back between the MSB and Lamm produced a wholeness in the presentation.  I did also change the AC cord placement in the system as well which alseo contributed to the gestalt.  It is quite pleasing now but, as I said, I need more time with the system and there may also be some more time needed when I fix the binding post.

Do I hear a transformation from v2?  Not yet.  Is there a sonic character that I can identify between the them?  Yes a subtle softening of the high frequencies just below the harmonics but also a clearer window into the soundstage.  This is most apparent with the current cable set up I have.  A change in the power cords can obfuscate this.  It is pretty subtle.

Let me end with this:  Perhaps the most important improvemt that can be wrought in either v2 or v3 guise is the right AC power cord.  In my Reference System as well as the High End system,  unquestionalbly, the JPS Labs Aluminata AC power cords are transformational.  Is a $3500 AC cord worth  it?  And remember you need two.  All I can say is that the Reference 9SE's most certainly are worth the Aluminata!

Good listening,
Paul
P.A.U.L.
www.precisionaudioonline.com

rustydoglim

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Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #9 on: 8 Nov 2009, 08:36 am »
We strongly recommend anyone using Nuforce amps to go with our Focused Field cable :)

paularthur

Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #10 on: 8 Nov 2009, 04:30 pm »
Jason,

Are AC power cords in the works?

Paul

beachbum

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Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #11 on: 8 Nov 2009, 07:19 pm »
paularthur thanks for sharing your findings much appreciated. I ve tried different power cords with my amps but none in the price range of Aluminatas. Can you give us what you are hearing with and with out them with your amps.

John Casler

Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #12 on: 8 Nov 2009, 07:38 pm »
Hello cryotweaks and thanks for the info. I take it you also are using Nuforce ICs and Speaker wire. Let us know what improvements you are hearing as more hrs add up on your amps/wire.
I ve had a bit of bad luck sending my amps in for the upgrade. I used USPS priority mail and they got there in two days this past Wednesday so i could get a faster turnaround but the PO delivered them before Nuforce was open at 8:45 am on Wednesday and as i checked this morning my amps are still at the Post Office. Oh well good things come to those that wait.
Mike

As Mike's NuFORCE dealer I have been trying to help him sort this US Post Office thing out.

I strongly suggest that anyone sending equipment to NuFORCE use either FEDEX or UPS as they have a better delivery schedule and repeat delivery attempts that will facilitate delivery.

The US Post Office, leaves a notice/slip to come and pick up the shipment at the Post Office which can delay delivery.

John Casler

Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #13 on: 8 Nov 2009, 07:44 pm »
Jason,

Are AC power cords in the works?

Paul

I would second that suggestion/question.  It would seem that a NuFORCE Power Cord might have the potential to be the most significant of all the cords/cables for these amps.

paularthur

Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #14 on: 8 Nov 2009, 09:28 pm »
If I may ramble a bit, I?d like to discuss power in general and on various components in response to your inquiry as well as the R9SE/Aluminata combination.  I also invite you to see further thoughts regarding power delivery in P.A.U.L.?s November e-zine at:  http://www.precisionaudioonline.com/e-zine.html

Power in general and the R9SE:
I?ve recommended to both of you (R9SEv2 customers) not to shut off the 9?s.  I, however, have been on an austerity budget and have been shutting down the system whenever not listening.  Last night while preparing for a production of Swan Lake, I will be attending today; I listened through the six sides of The Boston conducted by Ozawa on an admittedly and routinely disappointing DG pressing.  Nevertheless, it was quite enlightening vis a vis my behest.

Side one was so disorganized I thought the pressing and recording were simply botched.  No bass or highs, forget about harmonics.  Wandering image?it was almost unlistenable.  I persisted even though I had an admittedly superior production on a USSR Melodiya/Angle pressing with Rozhdestvensky and the Moscow Radio Symphony Orchestra.  Well, by side four bass had returned as had highs, albeit no harmonic structure, imaging vastly improved but?not all right.  Dramatic improvement by the end of side four and by side six, most if not all had returned.  It was amazing to hear the system come together over the course of this listening session.  I cannot express the importance of keeping, at least transistor, components on all the time.  Interestingly, my tube gear does not exhibit the dramatic transformation I heard with the 9?s.  Generally, I find the LAMM, Artemis and Music Reference sound right in less than an hour.  Once fully broken in of course.

Power cords, interconnects and the Nu Force P9 Pre-amp
On another note, I have been spending more time in the Eminent Technology High End room and have this to report:  First, the Nu Force P9 is dramatically more musical connected to the Music Reference amp with Purist Audio Design Proteus Provectus balanced interconnects.  And though I liked it, it is a far, far better pre-amp than I had originally thought when driven by the JPS Labs Aluminata AC cord.  Shockingly so!  And second, while I have not found the RM 200 amp to be very sensitive to AC power cords the Isoclean Focus power cord has changed my opinion.  The VI power cord, obviously, was not the synergistic match for the RM 200. 

The P9 took on a warmth, mid-range and high frequency sweetness and coherence I?d expect from a far, far more expensive transistor pre-amp.  And it retained its admittedly great strengths of frequency extension, powerful drive and crystalline clarity.  I just wish it didn?t take a $3650 interconnect and a $3500 on a $3150 preamp to achieve this!  Still, I?m very impressed.  As for the RM 200, the bass, in particular became testicular, if you will (with the Isoclean Focus AC cord).  Quite surprising even for its Russian KT88 output tubes.  This was apparent on all tested pre to power interconnects.

Tue 10/28/2008 12:47 PM
JPS Aluminata AC cord on the Lamm LL2 Pre-amp
The Omega (full range ribbon speakers) sounds more coherent than I?ve ever heard.  The Aluminata AC (and interconnects) on the LL2 (and JPS Labs AC cords on the 9SEv2?s) seems to have added, literally, another octave and a half to the bass.   Though, I hate this word it is ?awesome?.  The entire spectrum is now of one piece of cloth.  The slight reticence I reported before (admittedly with 40 or so hours less on the pre-amp) is now perfectly balanced.  A direct comparison with the previous AC cord (on the Lamm), the JPS Kaptovator and a very good cord itself, reveals an even greater sense of space.  While the mid-range was good, exceptional actually, with the Aluminata (AC cord) it is as close as I have experienced to a live performance of a live performance.  I no longer have any reservations on the high frequencies or harmonic structure (of the Lamm).  I could close P.A.U.L. down today and for the rest of my life be happy with this system.

I must now ask myself ?What more might I achieve and at what cost??  I doubt, without perhaps spending an additional $70,000 to $100,000, an improvement of the magnitude I have achieved with the incremental upgrades I have made to this system would be gained.  The only improvements left might be the $5000 DAC upgrade for the MSB, some $5000 or $6000 moving coil cartridge with an equally expensive phono amp, $16,000 for the LAMM L2, $24,000 for the LAMM M2.2, $10,000 to $15,000 on a equipment rack and SRA shelving, $10,000 in power conditioning and finishing the entire system in Aluminata cabling for around $50,000.  Oops $100,000?  I guess not.

Oh what the heck!  You only live once!

Sat 4/11/2009 6:36 PM
NuForce Reference 9SEv2 with JPS Labs Aluminata interconnects and adding the PS Audio Power Plant Premiere supplied first by PAD Purist Anniversary AC cords and followed by changing to the JPS Labs Aluminata AC Cord
At 6 hours of running in I sat to take a first serious listen to the Purist Anniversary AC cord supplying power to the Power Plant Premiere.  I did here a significant difference (from the PAD Aqueous Anniversary AC cord) upon first turning on the system but held judgment.

The change I?d liken to installing an Acapella Plasma tweeter into the system.  There is a lightness or illumination to the sound previously not heard.  The definition of notes is far more clearly delineated across the entire frequency spectrum as though the notes are filled in from the inside out.  For example when listening to piano the initial hit of the hammer had previously overwhelmed the sound.  I think what has taken place is a correction in the time domain.  Now I hear each note as whole in time.  That is, it has put the sonic character of the instrument back together, if you will.

This characteristic is obvious up and down the audio spectrum.  Bass notes have taken on a more solid form.  Lines are clear in a way piston speakers, like the Wilson, reproduce so well albeit at the expense of the sonority of an instrument.  The explosive percussive sound, now in many Audiophiles and reviewers crosshairs, has led to the reportedly ?best? piston speakers such as the Wilson which tend to capture the texture of an instrument?s sound but loose the feeling of naturalness.  The Omega has what I hear as one of the most natural sonic signatures I?ve yet experienced.  The problem some have with planers is the lack of that percussive, overpowering in my opinion, bass and mid-bass.  Interestingly, with the Power Plant on the PAD power cord the Omega has gained the visceral impact of a great piston speaker through greater delineation.  The combined effect of the speed of the planer driver with the impact I now hear creates a much more complete representation of power and drive at low frequencies.

This character is carried up the frequency spectrum.  I have spoken of this system previously as having a whole cloth presentation.  What has been added is a transparency at the micro level of musical reproduction without creating a sense of discontinuity.  This discontinuity to which I refer is most apparent in overly analytical components.  Exciting yes.  Real?  Hardly.

The cables will burn in over the next several hundred hours, I expect.  I am most curious to see how they mature.  This has led me to the inevitable conclusion that I must get two more Purist Audio Design Purist Anniversary AC power cords and one more JPS Labs Aluminata AC cord so I can run the entire system from each set to compare the whole as well as try different AC cords on different components.

To be continued?

Moving the JPS Labs Aluminata AC cord to the Power Plant Premiere introduced me to?the real thing.  Everything the PAD Purist Power cord offered (on the Power Plant Premiere) was improved upon and some aberrations (in this particular system) not noticed before were revealed.  The Aluminata revealed an ever so slight but clearly audible dryness to the room acoustic as well as a suppression of sibilance.  Frequency extension did not change enough to comment on but where I heard a ?lightness or illumination? before I now heard each individual note illuminated from within.  The Aluminata showed the PAD to have had a hole in the middle of the note, if you will.  Each note now was full yet clearly defined as an individual contributor to the whole.  If I were to translate this into a visual image I?d say I could now see the texture of the instrument; its color, shape and the grain of the finish.  During listening to various pieces I had a relaxed sense of awe.  I found myself smiling as I do during a live event.

However, I do want to be very clear.  Final analysis was using the Power Plant Premiere as the AC power distribution source.  The overall results of any system are ultimately dependent on the quality of the AC provided to the equipment.  That being said, it is extremely rare to hear the same attributes for any component or cable, for that matter, in various system configurations.  The JPS Aluminata AC cord is one of those very rare and in my experience the only component I have found improves every system on every component I have installed it.  The evaluations I spoke of above were all done with v2 of the R9SE amps.  I have not had the time yet for detailed evaluation of the v3 iteration of the R9SE.  But what I can say with absolute confidence is you have not heard your amps until you?ve heard them, at least, with the JPS Aluminata AC cords.  Period!

Good listening,
Paul
P.A.U.L.
www.precisionaudioonline.com

nuforce-casey

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Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #15 on: 8 Nov 2009, 09:44 pm »
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nuforce-casey

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Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #16 on: 8 Nov 2009, 09:45 pm »

Power in general and the R9SE:
It was amazing to hear the system come together over the course of this listening session.  I cannot express the importance of keeping, at least transistor, components on all the time.  Interestingly, my tube gear does not exhibit the dramatic transformation I heard with the 9?s.  Generally, I find the LAMM, Artemis and Music Reference sound right in less than an hour.  Once fully broken in of course.

I think this has more to do with the power cord and speaker cables used rather than the Ref9 in general.   What takes shape during the power-on is that the dielectrics slowly re-orientates/polarizes.   WIth thicker dielectric, they simply takes longer to fully polarizes.   We used regular factory AC cords and Nuforce Focused Field, and I can hear the sound changes within 1 track (the P9 and CDP are always left on).  There are also no big reservoir capacitors in Nuforce products, unlike regular Class A amps (with capacitors as large as coke cans) to charge up.

Casey

beachbum

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Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #17 on: 9 Nov 2009, 04:24 am »
With out a doubt in my case using a Pure Power 2000 re generator was the single best add on improvement to my Nuforce amps and system.
Mike

neutralos

Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #18 on: 9 Nov 2009, 11:59 am »
... to make it short what I had written yet in a separate thread:

Not sure if I passed the 100 hours mark. The V3 still plays better and better.
More relaxed, open and balanced. And this 3 D imaging behind the speakers ... great, detailed and smooth sounding. How this amp could perform when fit out with the optimal cables and AC filters ?aa
Step for step ... I cannot stand much experiences in a short time  :wink:


beachbum

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Re: New V3 users chime in
« Reply #19 on: 9 Nov 2009, 12:46 pm »
neutralos dont you just love this hobby. when a company like nuforce comes along and backs up there designs with inexpensive upgrades and bring ear opening improvements you have to wonder what the other manufactures are doing. I m in a holding pattern but from what i ve read so far here on this thread v 3 is going to be something very special. starting with stock ref 9 se and v2 were large step ups in sound cant wait to hear the next step up. keep us up to date with your thoughts.
mike