[beat]

Hello all!

Long time no post. Have been away from the scene for a while pursuing another passion.. Well, this past weekend I had the opportunity to incorporate my two favorite passtimes up in Denver. Anyway, there was a presentation regarding why treatments matter. I.E. stands, power cables, power conditioning..It was great. I have known the importance of tweaks for years. However, beyond using a good grade of power cable (Sarah Lee) I haven't really addressed power in any of my rigs. So this all has me interested in building (maybe just buying) a good conditioner and further exploring power cables. I dont know enough about how power flows to understand what goes in to a decent conditioner. In an effort to understand the basics behind the Felicia or Felix, or what to look for in an off the shelf conditioner, I guess my technical question is this:

In semi-laymans terms can someone explain what the capacitors, inductors, and/or transformers are actually doing individually in there?


I have some isolation Transformers and understand that premise.. and in building a crossover, I understand caps and inductors with the highpass/lowpass thing but I dont see how they work in regular 120 A/C. Is it basically the same? Are we building essentially some sort of A/C crossover telling the "juice" what is allowed to pass and what doesnt?


Thanks, all. Have a great night.

Darren

[richidoo]

Are we building essentially some sort of A/C crossover telling the "juice" what is allowed to pass and what doesnt?

You got it right. A big low pass filter to strip the trash noise from the power grid before it goes into your stereo.  There are many variations, of course. Transformer conditioners work differently than filters, they actually disconnect you from the grid electrically and then regenerate power from magnetic energy in the core with some benefits.

Welcome back Darren!

[sl_1800]

I too have not paid much attention to power filtering.  I have a monster unit and all it does it make for a convenient turn on and off switch.  This past week a built a Felix unit, found here on the lab, tried it on my source components and the dang thing actually works, quieter background and better image.

[beat]

Thanks for the replies guys! I am definitely going to build a Felix or two. I just wanted to get an idea of what the components are doing. So it really sort of is just like a crossover, eh? If so, then caps are screening out lower frequencies allowing higher to pass and coils are screening higher allowing lower, correct? ... And these frequencies we are speaking of, They are basically some sort of feedback from surrounding appliances, right?

Next million dollar questions: Do all appliances create noise? How are they transmitted? Through the neutral pole? That's how the power sort of returns to the breaker box right?

If I can understand this part of it I promise I'll stop bugging y'all.

Thanks in advance, Darren

[beat]

Ooh.. I just found this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noise_%28electronics%29

Think I just answered my own question

[memofer]

Hi all... my first post here!

Beat, I have the same problem as you... I when to the RMAF and I was intrigued by the lessons on power conditioning by the Nordost group.. I was there 3 hrs listening to all they had to say about it and I was impressed at what the difference the power cord did to the sound..
I have never paid any attention to this stuff as I though a power cord did not make a difference at all... boy was I wrong...

I am looking at power cords, conditioners and stands but mainly at power cords to start with... what is the Felix unit.. sounds like something I need..

I also read a lot about the volex 17605 power cord which they say it helps smooth things out...

Thx

[beat]

Welcome on board Memofer!
You will find the search button at the top of the page when you are logged in. Its a great function to use here because there has been a wealth of knowledge spread thoughout here through the years. I believe this is the most recent edition of the Felix threads:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=25757.0

If you look at the drawing Occam made, You can see that it is a pretty simple device. I cant wait to get to building one. Also, those Volex are hard to beat. I wish we could have thrown one of those in the mix that day at RMAF. You do realize that that Nordost we heard was like some 3000 dollars dont you? Insanity. In the past I have messed around with braiding power cables for use in distribution boxes but never really paid attention to the affects. Currently, I am playing around with some finer wires in a tighter weave just to sort of mimic that one we heard.. (in a Nacho Libre voice) It's for fun.

[memofer]

Eventually I think I will build the Felix too.. but for now I will order a couple of Volex just to experiment.

And yes, I just can not believe the prices of those cables, is that for real? do people really pay that kind of money for cables.... crazy... but the sound out of those small 2 ways was just short of incredible! did you hear they cost 17k including the stands... BTW.. I only recognized a couple of artists... do you know who else were they playing?

Let us know your results of your wires projects...

[beat]

Yeah the sound out of those was pretty unbelievable. I had no idea they cost that much though. I know at our deal on Sunday he was playing some different pieces than the previous ones because the other guy was commenting on his "mixing it up". I still dont know who we were listening to though. Yeah, if this cable I'm making is half decent I'll post it up (so people can laugh at it).

[markC]

I don't believe that the currently offered Volex cables are the same as the ones praised in the past. Different part #'s and plugs IIRC.
You may want to research B4 you order.

[Occam]

Mark is correct. The new Volex 17604/5 is a PRC sourced cord with nickel plated connections. The older Volex 17604/5 was produced in Mexico and has unplated brass contacts. I've no personal experience with the newer Volex offerings, as I've moved on, becoming a full time snake oil purveyor.
Possible alternatives to the Volexes would include pre-made versions of the late Bob Crump's 'Asylum Cord' -
http://www.ramelectronics.net/search.ep?keyWords=19364&x=11&y=8
M.A.C. (My Audio Cables), Signal Cable, and Chris Van Haus all offer premade or kit cords at low cost, albeit substantially higher than the Volex.
Prior to investing in expensive aftermarket cords, I strongly suggest you familiarize yourself with the improvements offered by low cost cords, prior to even considering $100+ cords. The proper comparison in evaluating cords is to compare lower priced aftermarket cords to the cord that came with your component(s), and if you decide to move further up the food chain, then compare lower to higher priced aftermarket cords. You might find yourself perfectly happy with the lower priced after market cords (or even you stock cords, although I doubt it).

I do recommend the surplus OneAC and Powervar conditioners often available on EBay, not for their power conditioning capabilities, which IMO is substantially worse than a Felix, but assuming the all in price including shipping is sufficiently low, they make an excellent chassis for a multiple Felix conditioner, with pre-punched openings for receptacles. You simply toss out the internals of the Powervar/OneAC, including the isolation transformer and receptacles. Unless you have a prior affinity for Oyaide, Furutech, or Teslaplex receptacles, use Hubbell HBL5262 15 amp or HBL5362 20 amp outlets from -
http://www.stayonline.com/nema-3-wire-receptacles-duplex-straight-blade.aspx
The Industrial Grade 125vac receptacles are $12 and $14 respectively.

Regards,
Paul

[jhm731]

Here's an excellent low cost DIY power cord:

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?powrcabl&1258945398&/Supra-Cables-LoRad-3x-2.5-for-

[ltr317]

Here's an excellent low cost DIY power cord:

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?powrcabl&1258945398&/Supra-Cables-LoRad-3x-2.5-for-

Yes, I made one.  For a 1 meter cord, and using quality connectors the entire cost is approx.  $40-45.   Add another $15 for an additional meter from Supra.

Paul

[HT cOz]

Mark is correct. The new Volex 17604/5 is a PRC sourced cord with nickel plated connections. The older Volex 17604/5 was produced in Mexico and has unplated brass contacts. I've no personal experience with the newer Volex offerings, as I've moved on, becoming a full time snake oil purveyor.
Possible alternatives to the Volexes would include pre-made versions of the late Bob Crump's 'Asylum Cord' -
http://www.ramelectronics.net/search.ep?keyWords=19364&x=11&y=8
M.A.C. (My Audio Cables), Signal Cable, and Chris Van Haus all offer premade or kit cords at low cost, albeit substantially higher than the Volex.
Prior to investing in expensive aftermarket cords, I strongly suggest you familiarize yourself with the improvements offered by low cost cords, prior to even considering $100+ cords. The proper comparison in evaluating cords is to compare lower priced aftermarket cords to the cord that came with your component(s), and if you decide to move further up the food chain, then compare lower to higher priced aftermarket cords. You might find yourself perfectly happy with the lower priced after market cords (or even you stock cords, although I doubt it).

I do recommend the surplus OneAC and Powervar conditioners often available on EBay, not for their power conditioning capabilities, which IMO is substantially worse than a Felix, but assuming the all in price including shipping is sufficiently low, they make an excellent chassis for a multiple Felix conditioner, with pre-punched openings for receptacles. You simply toss out the internals of the Powervar/OneAC, including the isolation transformer and receptacles. Unless you have a prior affinity for Oyaide, Furutech, or Teslaplex receptacles, use Hubbell HBL5262 15 amp or HBL5362 20 amp outlets from -
http://www.stayonline.com/nema-3-wire-receptacles-duplex-straight-blade.aspx
The Industrial Grade 125vac receptacles are $12 and $14 respectively.

Regards,
Paul

Does anyone know if the Volex cord is the same?  Did just the connectors change?

[memofer]

Thank you all for all your suggestions... I have googled and read about the new volex cord being different than the older one, and it sounds to me that it is not recommended anymore... but I think I will order one to get my feet wet and to see if I can detect any difference on my receiver, I am reading about the Felix and I will build one too...

Thanks again, I have a lot of reading and learning to do....

This is fun though...

[beat]

I think I have some extras of the older type at my house, Memo. I'll look tonight if you are really interested.

[beat]

Here's an excellent low cost DIY power cord:

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?powrcabl&1258945398&/Supra-Cables-LoRad-3x-2.5-for-

Looks like nice stuff!

[memofer]

I think I have some extras of the older type at my house, Memo. I'll look tonight if you are really interested.

Yes, I am... let me know....

[beat]

Crap.. Sorry Memo. Didnt realize I went through them all. The last one I have is reserved for my old Marantz mod. Sorry to get your hopes up. I'm expecting my Wattgate plug tomorrow so I'll post the results of my funky cable I'm building soon.