NEW: RWA brings advantages of Battery Power Supplies to non-Red Wine components

sweet_sound · « **Reply #20 on:** 10 Oct 2009, 01:33 pm »

Vinnie,

Didn't visit this forum for couple of weeks and look what I find! This is good timing since I recently got my hands on Amarra Model 4.

My Amarra Model 4 (re-badged Metric Halo ULN-8) uses 24V DC, 2A, and 4-pin XLR for power. Will the Black Lightning Series 10 be suitable for that?

Thanks,

Ken

Edit: corrected spelling error

silverlight · « **Reply #21 on:** 11 Oct 2009, 03:26 am »

I definitely second the inquiry on a Lightning for the Model 4, could be some nice synergy

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #22 on:** 11 Oct 2009, 02:02 pm »

Hi sweet_sound and silverlight,

Assuming Amarra Model 4 has the same power specs as the Metric Halo ULN-8, according to the Metric Halo ULN-8 specifications:

Voltage    14v - 28v
Power    32 Watts

External Supply (Output)    24 VDC
External Supply (Max Output Current)    2.0 A
External Supply Connector    4-Pin XLR

So the external switch-mode power supply adapter outputs 24Vdc, with a max current output of 2A.

However, the unit is specified to consume 32 watts. So at 24Vdc, it is drawing approx. 32/24 = 1.3A of current.

The Black Lightning Series 10 can fit two 12V, 5Ah SLA batteries (connected in series via SMART board to output 24Vdc). However, with a 1.3A constant draw of curent, I do not expect you to be able to get more than 2 or 3 hours of playback (I would need to test this with a "dummy" load).

We can make a Black Lightning Series 12 to fit two 12V, 10Ah SLA batteries - so this should offer playback in the range of 4 to 6 hours (again, this would need to be confirmed with a dummy load drawing the same current as the unit consumes).

I am curious if the unit consumes a constant 32 watts, or if this is just a peak rating that they are specifying (or an average rating, and if at times it actually consumes more power!). If I had the unit here in my shop, I can measure it very easily, but perhaps the company's engineering dept. has the answers and would be willing to share this info (I can call them).

But the good news is - YES, because this unit accepts a 24Vdc input - it can be powered totally off-the-grid from Black Lightning, and this will be MUCH cleaner than the stock switch-mode power supply that they currently use to feed it.

It is all a matter of how much play time can you get on the battery power and if it will meet your needs...

Best regards,

Vinnie

jtwrace · « **Reply #23 on:** 11 Oct 2009, 02:21 pm »

Vinnie

When will the price be released?

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #24 on:** 11 Oct 2009, 02:25 pm »

Quote from: jtwrace on 11 Oct 2009, 02:21 pm

Vinnie

When will the price be released?

Hi jtwrace,

We are aiming to have pricing, official press release, as well as a detailed web page ready late October / early November.

Thanks for all your patience.

Best regards,

Vinnie

doug s. · « **Reply #25 on:** 11 Oct 2009, 03:16 pm »

Quote from: Vinnie R. on 8 Oct 2009, 01:28 pm

All,

Thanks for all your interest in the upcoming Black Lightning battery power supplies. I apologize for the delayed response - it has been CRAZY BUSY over here and I just have a lot of my plate right now...

Quote
So, I like to leave my Duet Receiver and DAC powered on all of the time. A battery power source wouldn't allow me to do this, correct?

Curious about the price and how it compares to other after-market power supplies.

Hi BobC,

Correct - If you require to leave your components left ON all the time, the Black Lightning is not going to meet your needs. When Black Lightning is ON, it is only running from the internal battery (or batteries), and the battery charger (both the + and - leads are internally disconnected via the SMART board, so there is absolutely no pollution from the AC mains on the pure battery power supply) and when OFF, the batteries are charging...

what would it take to make one such that it is on all the time; when the battery goes dead, the dewice automatically goes to 120vac, and starts charging the batteries. sure, it may not sound as good when running off 120vac, but at least you can be using your system...

thanks,

doug s.

silverlight · « **Reply #26 on:** 11 Oct 2009, 03:40 pm »

Quote from: Vinnie R. on 11 Oct 2009, 02:02 pm

Hi sweet_sound and silverlight,

Assuming Amarra Model 4 has the same power specs as the Metric Halo ULN-8, according to the Metric Halo ULN-8 specifications:

Voltage 14v - 28v
Power 32 Watts

External Supply (Output) 24 VDC
External Supply (Max Output Current) 2.0 A
External Supply Connector 4-Pin XLR

So the external switch-mode power supply adapter outputs 24Vdc, with a max current output of 2A.

However, the unit is specified to consume 32 watts. So at 24Vdc, it is drawing approx. 32/24 = 1.3A of current.

The Black Lightning Series 10 can fit two 12V, 5Ah SLA batteries (connected in series via SMART board to output 24Vdc). However, with a 1.3A constant draw of curent, I do not expect you to be able to get more than 2 or 3 hours of playback (I would need to test this with a "dummy" load).

We can make a Black Lightning Series 12 to fit two 12V, 10Ah SLA batteries - so this should offer playback in the range of 4 to 6 hours (again, this would need to be confirmed with a dummy load drawing the same current as the unit consumes).

I am curious if the unit consumes a constant 32 watts, or if this is just a peak rating that they are specifying (or an average rating, and if at times it actually consumes more power!). If I had the unit here in my shop, I can measure it very easily, but perhaps the company's engineering dept. has the answers and would be willing to share this info (I can call them).

But the good news is - YES, because this unit accepts a 24Vdc input - it can be powered totally off-the-grid from Black Lightning, and this will be MUCH cleaner than the stock switch-mode power supply that they currently use to feed it.

It is all a matter of how much play time can you get on the battery power and if it will meet your needs...

Best regards,

Vinnie

I wonder if MHLab's site is quoting spec's assuming one is using the mic amps (it provides phantom power on up to 8 channels of mics I believe), and used as just a DAC may require less than the rated power. hmmm....

jtwrace · « **Reply #27 on:** 11 Oct 2009, 04:23 pm »

Quote from: Vinnie R. on 11 Oct 2009, 02:25 pm

Quote from: jtwrace on 11 Oct 2009, 02:21 pm
Vinnie

When will the price be released?

Hi jtwrace,

We are aiming to have pricing, official press release, as well as a detailed web page ready late October / early November.

Thanks for all your patience.

Best regards,

Vinnie

OK. How about a hint of cost? Will it be < $1001?

Thanks!

sweet_sound · « **Reply #28 on:** 11 Oct 2009, 08:05 pm »

Vinnie,

If the battery lasts for about 4 to 6 hours of music play, that would work for me.

I think having some visual indication of low battery would be great. I would prefer LED color change (green/blue -> yellow -> red) instead of flashing LED (very distracting).

Ken

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #29 on:** 12 Oct 2009, 02:42 pm »

Quote

what would it take to make one such that it is on all the time; when the battery goes dead, the dewice automatically goes to 120vac, and starts charging the batteries. sure, it may not sound as good when running off 120vac, but at least you can be using your system...

thanks,

doug s.

Hi doug,

I suppose you can plug in your stock power adapter if you still need to continue to use your product, but this would not be "automatic." To make it automatic, we'd need to redesign the SMART board to have another relay on the output that would switch between the battery output and the stock power adapter output - but it would get very complicated and expensive. You would need to feed the stock power adapter into the unit (I prefer not to do this in order to keep the power path as short and clean as possible), and make sure the switching is seamless and automatic, but we are not planning on doing this. Again, too complicated, too expensive...

It would be best if we work to figure out how many hours you need to play your product and then pick a battery size (Amp-hour capacity) to meet your needs. Then it will play for as long as you need (hopefully

).

Quote

I wonder if MHLab's site is quoting spec's assuming one is using the mic amps (it provides phantom power on up to 8 channels of mics I believe), and used as just a DAC may require less than the rated power. hmmm....

Hi Silverlight,

I'll have to call their engineering dept. and hopefully they can verify this. I tried calling this morning, but nobody is picking up. Might be due to the holiday today.

Quote

OK. How about a hint of cost? Will it be < $1001?

Thanks!

Hi jtwrace,

Ok, here is your hint (but please do not hold me to this

) - The larger Series 12 will be less than $1000. The smaller Series 10 will be approx. a couple hundred dollars less than the Series 12. Until pricing is finalized, this is all I can say about it. Thanks for your patience and understanding regarding the price issue...

Quote

I think having some visual indication of low battery would be great. I would prefer LED color change (green/blue -> yellow -> red) instead of flashing LED (very distracting).

Hi Ken,

Thanks for your feeeback. The LED built-into our power switches emits a soft red glow. It does not change color, and I rather not add another LED on the unit to glow when the voltage is running low (it will add more complexity and cost, and the enclosures are already being made). So instead, we program our microcontroller to simply make the LED flash slowly - it really isn't distracting or annoying, and I think adding another LED could actually be more distracting and confusing. The fewer lights, the better.

I really want to keep this clean and simple and consistent what we are doing with our other products now. With the new SMART boards, everything is working out so well and I want to continue on this path

Best regards,

Vinnie

doug s. · « **Reply #30 on:** 12 Oct 2009, 04:01 pm »

vinny, i typically have my main rig on 12 hours/day; and continually, over the weekend. so, 60-72 hours would be what i need. i would probably need two - one for amps/deqx, the other for the front end. but, i suspect that having them big enough for 60-72 hours would make them prohibitively big/expensive... if/when i move from my one-room studio, where the main rig serves both living-room & bedroom use, then 18-24 hours capacity would be fine for the main rig, which would get turned on early on sat/sun, and remain on until the wee hours - assuming re-charge takes place in 6-8 hours. when the move happens, the main rig will be supplemented by something else in the bedroom.

thanks,

doug s.

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #31 on:** 12 Oct 2009, 04:07 pm »

Hi Doug,

You can email or call me at any time to discuss, but based on your need to have your equipment on for 60 - 72 hours at a time, I do not believe our upcoming Black Lightning products will meet your needs.

I do appreciate your interest in Black Lightning, but there are going to be cases (such as yours) where this product will not meet the needs of the user - especially for those who want or need to leave their equipment left ON for long periods of time.

Best regards,

Vinnie

doug s. · « **Reply #32 on:** 12 Oct 2009, 04:20 pm »

Quote from: Vinnie R. on 12 Oct 2009, 04:07 pm

Hi Doug,

You can email or call me at any time to discuss, but based on your need to have your equipment on for 60 - 72 hours at a time, I do not believe our upcoming Black Lightning products will meet your needs.

I do appreciate your interest in Black Lightning, but there are going to be cases (such as yours) where this product will not meet the needs of the user - especially for those who want or need to leave their equipment left ON for long periods of time.

Best regards,

Vinnie

that's ok vinnie, i knew this - which is why i had my 1st query, about having them automatically switch to 120vac.

when my situation changes, do you thing 18-24 hours run time is relatively easily do-able?

best,

doug s.

jtwrace · « **Reply #33 on:** 12 Oct 2009, 04:23 pm »

Vinnie,

Thanks for the pricing hint.

Will it be a big change if one was to change equipment and need the output voltage changed? Possible?

hum4god · « **Reply #34 on:** 12 Oct 2009, 06:56 pm »

hi vinnie

would it be possible to build a battery supply for a pair of field coil drivers?
voltage would need to be adjustable between 10.5 and 12.5 V .
around 2A .

best regards
malcolm

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #35 on:** 12 Oct 2009, 07:40 pm »

Quote

that's ok vinnie, i knew this - which is why i had my 1st query, about having them automatically switch to 120vac. when my situation changes, do you thing 18-24 hours run time is relatively easily do-able?

Hi Doug,

It really depends on what equipment you are powering and what kind of current (power) your equipment draws. When the time comes, please email or call me and we can discuss your system and needs and see what can be done...

Quote

Will it be a big change if one was to change equipment and need the output voltage changed? Possible?

Hi jtwrace,

Yes, this is possible and shouldn't be a big change. You might also need a different cable (if the new equipment uses a different input jack) - but we can take care of this...

Quote

would it be possible to build a battery supply for a pair of field coil drivers?
voltage would need to be adjustable between 10.5 and 12.5 V .
around 2A .

Hi Malcolm,

This can be done. Typically, a fully charged 12V SLA battery starts out at 13.2V, but then quickly drops to approx. 12.8V. This is your fully charged voltage. Would your drivers be OK with 12.8V? When the SMART board kicks it, it is usually somewhere in the 11.2 - 11.5V range - so at least that meets your specs.

Is the current draw a constant 2A? If yes, I would recommend a Series 12 enclosure that houses two 12V, 10Ah batteries connected in parallel (giving your 20Ah). I would need to test this, but you should be good for about 6 hours continuous...

Best regards,

Vinnie

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #36 on:** 27 Oct 2009, 01:30 pm »

All,

UPDATE: 10/27

We should finally be getting the Black Lightning enclosures in stock this week. Then we'll have pictures taken and get the formal PR and webpage (with all the details and pricing) up on the RWA site. I am hoping for this to happen in just a couple of weeks from now, and then we should be ready to start taking orders getting production rolling.

Also - Jeff Dorgay of Tone Audio (http://www.tonepublications.com/) will be conducting an online review of a Black Lightning Series 10 unit (12V output) feeding some really high-end Nagra equipment (which takes 12Vdc power input), as well as his Wadia iTransport (and maybe others... we'll see). So stay tuned - should be out sometime late-November or early-December!

I'll continue to keep you all posted.

Thanks again for all your interest, support and patience.

Best regards,

Vinnie

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #37 on:** 6 Nov 2009, 04:02 pm »

UPDATE: 11/6

Enclosures have arrived!

However, we'll need a few weeks to get our custom packing material in (and from our current RWA components, you know we don't mess around with packing material - we require the good stuff to make sure your equipment arrives safely).

In the meantime, we'll be getting the detailed webpage (and press release) ready, and soon will be taking orders. Just a couple more weeks, and thanks for all your patience and support. Black Lightning will be well-worth the wait!

As always, I'll keep you all posted.

All the best,

Vinnie

cfmsp · « **Reply #38 on:** 12 Nov 2009, 12:09 am »

Count me interested, for a Metric Halo ULN-2, and eventually a First Watt J2?

can't wait,
clay

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #39 on:** 17 Nov 2009, 02:27 pm »

Quote from: cfmsp on 12 Nov 2009, 12:09 am

Count me interested, for a Metric Halo ULN-2, and eventually a First Watt J2?

can't wait,
clay

Hi Clay,

I have a good customer who is ordering a Black Lightning for his ULN-8 (actually I think it is an Almarra Model 4, which is supposed to be based on the ULN-8).

Is the voltage input for the ULN-2 also 24Vdc like the ULN-8? I'll have to check it out - as well as the First Watt amps aa

Cheers!

Vinnie