[Mister Pig]

Been considering a return to the vinyl arena for awhile now. Couple of years ago I sold my 250 series Teres with ET II arm. Wonderful sounding table, but it sure took up a lot of room with the pumps, battery pack for the motor and what not. Although there was many a day I missed it.

This time things are going to be simpler. I found a Townshend Rock Mk III on the used market, and thats where I plan to start. This has been a table that caught my attention for many years, although they were never available in my neighborhood. I have owned a Well Tempered Record Player and experienced the benefits of that unusual tone arm. I am very curious to know how well the dampening trough at the end of the tone arm configuration is going to work.

Table does not come with the matching Excalibur arm. Since this is not an assault on the state of the art rig, I am thinking of finding a modified RB 250 for this project. Although there is a Scheu Classic Mk II out on Audiogon that looks interesting, but have no information on this version of the arm. While I loved my ET II arm, it appears that the dampening trough will now allow for a linear tracking arm.

Perhaps the only other choice that has been made is the cartridge. I was completely satisfied with a Dynavector 17D2, so I am going to purchase the updated version of this cartridge. Unless something blindsides me, which is always possible.

Hopefully by the end of the year, if not allot sooner, vinyl will be spinning in the pig pen.

Regards
Mister Pig

[vinylphilemag]

Excellent news!  It's always refreshing to read about more people returning to the vinyl fold!

[toobluvr]

Congrats!  Nice choice.   

I have owned the Townshend Rock Mk III since 1997. 
Excellent table!



 
I got it from Galen Carol right around the time Townshend abandoned their Texas production facility.  Esoteric brand for sure, but excellent performer.

I'd love to get my hands on an Excalibur arm that was included early on, but towards the end they switched over to a Rega 300B that was specially modified (VTA adjustment, arm cable terminated with RCA junction box) for the Rock.  Of course, I had to have "better" so I sold the Rega early on.   

I have used the following arms on it:

Graham 1.5 t/c
SME V
Kuzma Stogi S
Kuzma Stogi Reference

The Graham and Stogi S are unipivot, so the table's dampening trough was a no-no.

My fave by a long shot is the Stogi Ref.  Kuzma is slightly unheralded on this side of the pond, but really top-notch performance.  It's what I currently use...all the other arms are sold.

With arms of this high caliber, my preference is to go sans trough.   I have tried it both ways and I find that the trough deadens the sound too much and sucks some life out of the music.  This may also be cartridge dependent.  I use HO (MM and MC) cartridges.   Perhaps a more skittish and thoroughbred LOMC would benefit from the trough?     

In my experience, what the trough does is make a cheaper / inferior arm much much better.  It elevates its performance and makes it more competitive with better arms.  In this way, you can shift funds over to the cartridge and / or phono stage.

Keep in mind that you can use any arm on the Rock, but the trough cannot be used with unipivot arms.  Also, if you use an arm that has its own built in dampening at the the arm's pivot, like some SME models, the arm's dampening should be disengaged when using the trough or you risk an over-damped sound.

But you can try it different ways and tweak to your hearts content:

with trough
without trough
with arm's dampening system only
with both
etc.

I've even heard stories of guys "adjusting" the sound with different trough fluids:  motor oil, baby oil, vegetable oil, etc.  They all have different viscosities, so I guess the sound will be effected.

Have fun!

John

[TheChairGuy]

I also had a Rock - circa 1987-88.

I remember great sounds from it...but, I was smoking dope back then

Nonetheless, I'm pretty sure I listened to it a few times without mild hallucinogens in my system...and it sounded very fine indeed

Regards, Another John

[toobluvr]

 

I still indulge on occasion......... 

Schmokey not required for great sounds from the Rock!

 

[Mister Pig]

Congrats!  Nice choice.   

I have owned the Townshend Rock Mk III since 1997. 
Excellent table!



 
I got it from Galen Carol right around the time Townshend abandoned their Texas production facility.  Esoteric brand for sure, but excellent performer.

I'd love to get my hands on an Excalibur arm that was included early on, but towards the end they switched over to a Rega 300B that was specially modified (VTA adjustment, arm cable terminated with RCA junction box) for the Rock.  Of course, I had to have "better" so I sold the Rega early on.   

I have used the following arms on it:

Graham 1.5 t/c
SME V
Kuzma Stogi S
Kuzma Stogi Reference

The Graham and Stogi S are unipivot, so the table's dampening trough was a no-no.

My fave by a long shot is the Stogi Ref.  Kuzma is slightly unheralded on this side of the pond, but really top-notch performance.  It's what I currently use...all the other arms are sold.

With arms of this high caliber, my preference is to go sans trough.   I have tried it both ways and I find that the trough deadens the sound too much and sucks some life out of the music.  This may also be cartridge dependent.  I use HO (MM and MC) cartridges.   Perhaps a more skittish and thoroughbred LOMC would benefit from the trough?     

In my experience, what the trough does is make a cheaper / inferior arm much much better.  It elevates its performance and makes it more competitive with better arms.  In this way, you can shift funds over to the cartridge and / or phono stage.

Keep in mind that you can use any arm on the Rock, but the trough cannot be used with unipivot arms.  Also, if you use an arm that has its own built in dampening at the the arm's pivot, like some SME models, the arm's dampening should be disengaged when using the trough or you risk an over-damped sound.

But you can try it different ways and tweak to your hearts content:

with trough
without trough
with arm's dampening system only
with both
etc.

I've even heard stories of guys "adjusting" the sound with different trough fluids:  motor oil, baby oil, vegetable oil, etc.  They all have different viscosities, so I guess the sound will be effected.

Have fun!

John

Those are some nice arms, thats for sure. Seems to defeat the purpose though of the table though. The defining feature seems to be the trough and what it can accomplish. This is not a TOTL table, so it seems that mating it with an appropriate arm would yield the best bang for the buck. Of course it is hard to argue with results.

One question, since I don't have the table in front of me yet. Can the trough support a linear tracking arm? I am a fan of the ET arm, and I do know that a trough system has been used for them in the past, especially an earlier Maplenoll version. But I wonder if an ET II could travel properly in the trough, and if the paddles would fit that kind of arm. Care to comment?

Regards
Mister Pig

[toobluvr]

No.....I'm sure a LT arm will not work.

The trough has a curved shape.  It basically matches the arc traced by the stylus of a 9 inch arm (mounted the traditional way) as it travels across a record.

There is a paddle that attaches right to the headshell, and it protrudes a bit forward of it.  It tracks the record the same way the stylus does (just a bit forward of it) and it travels through the silicon bath in the curved trough.

You are probably right that my arms have been overkill for this table.  But the problem with most cheaper arms is they are missing the adjustments that I require....usually VTA and Azimuth. 

Admittedly, I am just too anal to live with an arm that does not allow VTA adjustments, or if it does allow them, it is just ridiculously onerous....ie:  the whole rega spacer system.  Gimme a break!!     

I got a nice deal on the Stogi Ref,  so in terms of actual $$ spent, I did not overspend and it is in line with the table.  It is so good that I will probably upgrade the table around it....when I get around to it.  For now, the setup is pretty darn good! 

The Stogi S I owned is also excellent!     

[orthobiz]

Ummm...what's a trough? And what does TOTL stand for?

Paul

[bacobits1]

Here is a Pict.


http://www.regonaudio.com/RockMarkIII.jpg

[toobluvr]

Ummm...what's a trough? And what does TOTL stand for?

Paul

I suspect TOTL = "top of the line"

pic is worth 1000 words.



The trough is pivoted and swings towards the listener to place / remove record on platter.

These reviews give all the info and explanations you will need:

http://www.regonaudio.com/RockMarkIII.html

http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/hfw/reviewshtml/townrock3.html

http://www.audioreview.com/mfr/townshend-audio/turntables/mkiii/PRD_121375_1597crx.aspx


The Rock may not be "TOTL", but I suspect it outperforms the other usual suspects at its price point.  Probably by quite a bit.  Don't forget, it also has a built in Seismic Sink air bladder.

[TheChairGuy]

I still indulge on occasion......... 

Color me unsurprised at that one, Sir John

As we have discovered in the past - you ARE me and I you in a parallel universe and our paths only cross here at AC

John

[Mister Pig]

Ummm...what's a trough? And what does TOTL stand for?

Paul

I suspect TOTL = "top of the line"

pic is worth 1000 words.



The trough is pivoted and swings towards the listener to place / remove record on platter.

These reviews give all the info and explanations you will need:

http://www.regonaudio.com/RockMarkIII.html

http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/hfw/reviewshtml/townrock3.html

http://www.audioreview.com/mfr/townshend-audio/turntables/mkiii/PRD_121375_1597crx.aspx


The Rock may not be "TOTL", but I suspect it outperforms the other usual suspects at its price point.  Probably by quite a bit.  Don't forget, it also has a built in Seismic Sink air bladder.

Yup thats the table right there. The previous owner said the table is drilled for a Moerch arm. Going to make this a leisurely project, need to acquire an arm and phono stage. Still think the Dynavector 17D3 is going to be the cartridge going on this table.

One thing I have wondered is if any of the rim weights will work on this table, or would I be taking a chance on messing with the voicing. Also wonder if swapping to a DC motor would be worth considering, or could it even be accomplished? Without having the table here, its only conjecture now.

Well lets hope the shipping guys treat it well and get it here safely. Fortunately it is coming in factory packing.

Regards
Mister Pig

[orthobiz]

Thanks for the additional info. The trough is something i've never seen or heard about.

Paul

[Mister Pig]

Been looking seriously at the Jelco arms, specifically the 750 series. The arm board looks long enough to take a 12 inch model? If not, the 9 inch one could do.

This arm uses oil to dampen the bearings/pivot point. I wonder if the combination of arm oil and dampening trough will be too much? This does not appear to be a unipivot design like discussed in earlier posts

From the info on the net, the 750 appears to be described as gracefula dn refined. I plan on using it with a Dynavector 17D3. While I haven't checked the numbers, from what I remember about the D2 it should be ok with the Jelco. I understand that a replacement head shell can improve the performance of this arm, or at least lighten its effective mass.

Any thoughts/opinions?

Regards
Mister Pig