Anybody used vinyl laminate to finish their speakers?

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iskandam

I've been looking at this sheet from Parts Express as a potential candidate to finish my cabinets.  If anybody's used it before, how does it actually look in person?  Is it easier/harder to use than, say, iron-on paperbacked veneer?

mgalusha

Re: Anybody used vinyl laminate to finish their speakers?
« Reply #1 on: 28 Sep 2009, 03:44 pm »
I gave it a try this weekend and it looks better than I expected. Not as good as the real thing but it was easy to work with and certainly cheap. I bought mine when PE was having a sale. One of the reviews on the PE site mentions how easily it shows any surface imperfections, they are not kidding. Mine have a few but they are OK if you don't get too close. :0

Hank

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Re: Anybody used vinyl laminate to finish their speakers?
« Reply #2 on: 28 Sep 2009, 05:16 pm »
Orders of magnitude easier than wood veneer (you have to include the finish process for overall comparison).  I've used it on speakers.  I used their black ash on a system for a customer:  L & R towers, center, and two small surrounds.  Real wood veneer was out of his budget, so I suggested the vinyl and he was completely satisfied.  A HT bud built himself a pair of towers and covered them with the PE cherry and they looked great - people thought it was real veneer.  I have rolls of most of the PE vinyl.  I think I have one of the black textured and if so, I'll sell it to you for UPS cost.
You cabinet surfaces must be perfectly smooth - as noted, this stuff will telegraph all imperfections.

iskandam

Re: Anybody used vinyl laminate to finish their speakers?
« Reply #3 on: 28 Sep 2009, 05:48 pm »
How does the black textured actually look in person?  One of the reviewers on the PE site mentioned that it looks a bit different.  Is it matte and textured like truck bedliner?

Also, I plan to have the front baffles rounded over 3/4".  Will this work with the vinyl laminate?
« Last Edit: 28 Sep 2009, 07:48 pm by iskandam »

Bill Baker

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Re: Anybody used vinyl laminate to finish their speakers?
« Reply #4 on: 28 Sep 2009, 10:43 pm »
I have used this vinyl many times. With the right effort, you can get a beautiful finish. There are a few things to remember.

When using on speakers made of MDF or plywood, you do need a perfectly smooth finish. In any cut or machined edges, I would advise spraying some urathane and sanding smooth to close it up before applying the veneer. Wood putty or Bondo (autimotive body filler) also works. If you don't take your time, you will see the edges.

iskandam

Re: Anybody used vinyl laminate to finish their speakers?
« Reply #5 on: 28 Sep 2009, 11:18 pm »
Okay, let's see if I understand the process correctly:

  • Spray urethane on raw MDF surface
  • Sand smooth (which sandpaper would you recommend for this application?  Is it hard to accomplish a perfectly smooth, flat surface?)
  • Apply vinyl laminate

Am I missing anything here?

Bill Baker

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Re: Anybody used vinyl laminate to finish their speakers?
« Reply #6 on: 28 Sep 2009, 11:22 pm »
Quote
Okay, let's see if I understand the process correctly:


Spray urethane on raw MDF surface
Sand smooth (which sandpaper would you recommend for this application?  Is it hard to accomplish a perfectly smooth, flat surface?)
Apply vinyl laminate

Am I missing anything here?

That's pretty much it. I would use something along the lines of 400 grit sand paper.
 Getting a smooth surface is not difficult but depending on your woodworking skills, the time it takes to accomplish it will depend on how flush and square the cabinet is to begin with.

richidoo

Re: Anybody used vinyl laminate to finish their speakers?
« Reply #7 on: 28 Sep 2009, 11:46 pm »
Somewhere I saw a video of applying this stuff to Wharfedale speakers in a Chinese assembly line. The guy was amazing wrapping a huge piece all at once around a big speaker. Thanks for the tips...

iskandam

Re: Anybody used vinyl laminate to finish their speakers?
« Reply #8 on: 28 Sep 2009, 11:49 pm »
Is this the right kind of urethane to use?  I have no spraygun so I'm going to have to wipe it on instead.  How long should I let it sit to dry before proceeding with sanding?


Bill Baker

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Re: Anybody used vinyl laminate to finish their speakers?
« Reply #9 on: 29 Sep 2009, 12:13 am »
I would go to the hardware store and pick up a can of spray urethane or two. Just follow the instructions on the can for drying times.

BrianH

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Re: Anybody used vinyl laminate to finish their speakers?
« Reply #10 on: 29 Sep 2009, 05:00 am »
Something I do with mdf. Seal it before any other finishing. Good old cheap sanding sealer.  What it does is stop the uneven absorption.  There are substitutes for sanding sealer but I havent used those.

My two cents anyway.

B

iskandam

Re: Anybody used vinyl laminate to finish their speakers?
« Reply #11 on: 29 Sep 2009, 05:19 am »
Do you seal the MDF first before spraying the urethane or after (before the sanding part)?

William Schuchard

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Re: Anybody used vinyl laminate to finish their speakers?
« Reply #12 on: 29 Sep 2009, 12:33 pm »
Another option is to paint them.

Sometimes I use the fake stone spray from Rustoleum with a wood front.
http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=79
I don't think I would use it on an entire speaker as it's a pretty rustic finish with lots of texture and a flat finish. A coat of clear once it's cured can give it a sheen if desired. It's an easy way to get a durable finish that also adds a small amount of dampening. It's not cheap however so expect to use several cans per average sized speaker.

One could also paint them with an automotive finish like Wilson Audio but that takes a spray gun, time, money, and talent.

    Bill


Hank

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Re: Anybody used vinyl laminate to finish their speakers?
« Reply #13 on: 29 Sep 2009, 05:58 pm »
The black textured is a very fine texture, not at all like rough truck bed liner spray.  Sanding sealer, sand, check for any depressions, and if there are some very shallow ones, sand until they disappear.  I would say that the black vinyl won't show tiny defects as readily as the lighter fake wood vinyls.

BrianH

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Re: Anybody used vinyl laminate to finish their speakers?
« Reply #14 on: 29 Sep 2009, 07:04 pm »
Sanding sealer can be used a variety of ways. Its original purpose is to fill small pores in the wood and harden some of the fibrous ends of long grained woods like oak beore sanding. Put it on, then sand smooth. Since it fills small pores you get a nicely prepped wood face. Because it fills pores and provides a barrier of sorts it is often used to prevent bleeding of water based stains to the top coat as well as providing a nice base to put regular finishes on. SInce mdf is quite porous I found it works especially good for it.

Remember the sanding sealer is not a finish itself, really its just a preparation coat.  A very weak shellac solution does the same thing I am told.  Keep in mind this is mdf so a lot of the furniture wisdom doesn't really apply to it. :)  I say that because for fine woodworking we don't normally use sanding sealer. Myself I rarely use anything but oil for a finish for that.


iskandam

Re: Anybody used vinyl laminate to finish their speakers?
« Reply #15 on: 29 Sep 2009, 07:10 pm »
If using sanding sealer do I still need to spray urethane on the MDF surface?  If so, is it sprayed before or after the sanding sealer?

Initially I wanted a glossy piano black finish to match my TV stand but after learning about its complexity and the fact that this is my first project I decided against it.  The risk of botching it is too great.

My Epik sub has that truck bedliner finish, which is okay cause it sits behind the couch where nobody can see it anyway.  But the speakers will be smack dab in the middle of the living room so the minimum requirement is to not look ugly and it has to blend in with the rest of my A/V equipment (all black).  I'm ruling out painting due to the time/cost/skills commitment.  This vinyl laminate option seems to be the best one so far.

Does anybody have pictures of speakers/furniture finished with this laminate that they can share? 

TRADERXFAN

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Re: Anybody used vinyl laminate to finish their speakers?
« Reply #16 on: 29 Sep 2009, 09:10 pm »

Initially I wanted a glossy piano black finish to match my TV stand but after learning about its complexity and the fact that this is my first project I decided against it.  The risk of botching it is too great.

Does anybody have pictures of speakers/furniture finished with this laminate that they can share?

Have you seen this?
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=67474.0

Using the wilsonart stuff came our really nice. Roundover edges would be tricky -I don't know if that stuff has any flexility to it...

chrisby

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Re: Anybody used vinyl laminate to finish their speakers?
« Reply #17 on: 29 Sep 2009, 10:05 pm »
IINM, the sub boxes in the referenced thread are finished in Formica brand plastic laminate (specifically #909 black in gloss finish)

There are at least half a dozen mainstream domestic and even more custom European brands of plastic laminates available, but most of the DIY or home handyman big box stores won't likely carry in stock, and yes shipping can be expensive (even though the box is mostly full of air).

Try searching location kitchen cabinet/countertop shops - note that there are 3 standard domestic sizes (30x144in, 48x96in and 60x144in), and while the countertop shops may not always stock what you're looking for, if they're willing to sell retail, and you're willing to wait, you can often pay a lower landed net price than by ordering from out of town. Plus they'll generally have much better terms with vendors and shippers for remediation of shipping damage, which definitely happens frequently.

As for fabricating with plastic laminates, in addition to the 3 sheet sizes, there are several thickness grades - one of which is specifically intended for radius wrapping of edges.  Generically referred to in the trade as "post-forming" grade, it's very fragile, but can be fabricated to as small as a 3/4" full-wrap (i.e. 180 degree) radius, with specialized machinery using controlled heat to temporarily soften the material.  It takes a fair degree of practice to post-form wrap it with hand held tools, and unlike thermo-formed foils (which also require specialized production facilities) cannot be radiused in two directions.

The substrate core of HPL ( High Pressure Laminates) consists of layers of resin (generally phenolic)  impregnated paper (general kraft), and will usually reveal a medium to dark brown seam on exposed finished edges.  Felt markers reasonably closely matched to the predominant face color can generally disguise this edge, but will not have durability of the p-lam itself.   
   

BrianH

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Re: Anybody used vinyl laminate to finish their speakers?
« Reply #18 on: 29 Sep 2009, 11:45 pm »
If using sanding sealer do I still need to spray urethane on the MDF surface?  If so, is it sprayed before or after the sanding sealer?

Sanding sealer is before you do the final sanding. Final sanding is just prior to applying finish its usually a pretty fine grit, what kind of finish you use really doesn't matter poly/lacquer whatever. Think of it less like a finish or primer and you will be on a better track. The idea is to make the mdf itself be better for applying the finish. The surface prep is as important as applying the finish. If you use truck bed liner then it won't matter. :)

So what I did for my AV3's and sub was route the edges, then sand to 80 grit, then apply sanding sealer, final sand to 100 then 120 grit, dust everything well, light gray spray primer 2 coats, black satin spray 2 coats. Everything from Ace hardware Krylon or whatever. I was satisfied with the result. How fine you sand depends on the characteristics of the finish you apply.

You might want to check the local cabinet shops, if they are looking for work they would most likely laminate for you, auto or cabinet shops also paint.  You would end up with professional quality looking cabinets while still building them yourself.

Its easy for us diy'ers to underestimate the amount of training, experience and skill the pros have (not even considering the tools). However the diy/hobby journey can be fun if you take the time to enjoy it.

iskandam

Re: Anybody used vinyl laminate to finish their speakers?
« Reply #19 on: 1 Oct 2009, 08:37 pm »
Another option that I've yet to explore is the local auto shops.  I'm going to get some quotes next week, but I have a feeling I'm not gonna like what they're gonna quote me  8)