HD Tracks Price Increase

Philistine · « **on:** 18 Sep 2009, 01:32 am »

Recent announcement:

To HDtracks high-resolution store customers

Please take note that beginning on October 1st, 2009, the prices for our 96/24 and 88.2/24 album downloads will be changed from $15.98 to $17.98. We would like to give you a few weeks notice in advance of the change, so you will have time to take advantage of our current price.

ted_b · « **Reply #1 on:** 18 Sep 2009, 01:50 am »

Phil,
Thanks for the heads up. Guess business is good in Chesky-land. Is this an official announcement that the recession is over in audiphile-dom?

Oh well, their hirez stuff is good, and they are one of the pioneers of hirez downloads, so I must give them the benefit of the doubt...... for now....

Rasta · « **Reply #2 on:** 18 Sep 2009, 02:08 am »

Chesky is a small percent of their catalog. I think it is more the realization that the us dollar is in the crapper.

Heads up to anyone concerned, there is a inflationary tsunami coming to a US 'coast' near you.

Seek higher ground.

sleepysurf · « **Reply #3 on:** 18 Sep 2009, 02:18 am »

I'm very dismayed to hear this. Just when the Squeezebox Touch will be offering hi-res playback to the masses, they go off and shoot themselves in the foot. Not a smart move, IMHO. All it will do is further cut their sales, and potentially send them (and the entire hi-res d/l market) into a continued tailspin.

Philistine · « **Reply #4 on:** 18 Sep 2009, 02:41 am »

Quote from: sleepysurf on 18 Sep 2009, 02:18 am

I'm very dismayed to hear this. Just when the Squeezebox Touch will be offering hi-res playback to the masses, they go off and shoot themselves in the foot. Not a smart move, IMHO. All it will do is further cut their sales, and potentially send them (and the entire hi-res d/l market) into a continued tailspin.

This is a real shame as I found HD Tracks to be reasonable value and their selection was growing, I wanted them to succeed and supported them by downloading Hi-Rez content. I guess it's the record labels driving this - they need to run an economic analysis on price elasticy. The HD price was the max I was prepared to pay, now the price has increased then my activity will decrease. For many recordings I've paid royalties many times over when I've bought different formats and their is a limit. If they had a lower target price, say $12, they could move a boat load of these. Unfortunately the industry is run by a bunch of moronic cretins who don't understand business basics

I guess this sums up my views on this.

ted_b · « **Reply #5 on:** 18 Sep 2009, 02:48 am »

Quote from: Rasta on 18 Sep 2009, 02:08 am

Chesky is a small percent of their catalog.

I mentioned Chesky cuz he founded it. HDTracks is his.

Rasta · « **Reply #6 on:** 18 Sep 2009, 03:04 am »

ok, I'm sure you know more than me in this regard.

But, I have to ask myself, why would prices increase in a 'deflationary' environment?

Philistine · « **Reply #7 on:** 18 Sep 2009, 03:15 am »

Quote from: Rasta on 18 Sep 2009, 03:04 am

ok, I'm sure you know more than me in this regard.

But, I have to ask myself, why would prices increase in a 'deflationary' environment?

Rasta, I move product from China into the US and Europe - I can use containers or bulk cargo vessel. It's interesting that the container guys have increased rates to compensate for lower volumes and the bulk guys have dropped prices to attract more business as their business has declined. So two different approaches to the same problem. I moved my business to bulk and now the container guys are rescinding on increases, too late as far as I'm concerned.
So using this analogy it's probably just an attempt by the recording industry to increase revenue.
I've grown my business in the current economic climate, better service and prices - I see it as a growth opportunity, it looks like the recording industry see it as a opportunity to spiral down deeper.

Ted - sorry for the gloom and doom on your Circle, I'm, just very disappointed with this announcement as we Hi-Rez guys struggle to source downloads and when a good site is found they go and mess with it.

Jon L · « **Reply #8 on:** 18 Sep 2009, 04:53 am »

Quote from: Philistine on 18 Sep 2009, 02:41 am

The HD price was the max I was prepared to pay, now the price has increased then my activity will decrease.

I suspect tons of people feel the same way. Their old price was just about at the limit of what many of us would pay for internet downloads without hard copy medium, including myself. Oh, well, I guess I'll downnload some more before Oct 1st and be done with it

jsaliga · « **Reply #9 on:** 18 Sep 2009, 12:26 pm »

I received the email notice from them yesterday and I think I just bought my last two titles from HDtracks. I definitely want to support them, but at $17.98 per title I don't think I can. I am usually paying that much or less for physical hirez media.

--Jerome

sleepysurf · « **Reply #10 on:** 18 Sep 2009, 06:53 pm »

The additional $2 per d/l translates into a 12.5% price increase. Ridiculous, considering their product is data only, with no overhead for storage, distribution, etc. I'm willing to pay $18 for a high-rez physical disc, but not for a simple FLAC download. Makes absolutely NO business sense whatsoever, and totally changes my perception of Chesky.

mgalusha · « **Reply #11 on:** 18 Sep 2009, 07:13 pm »

One possible cause is the need for increased bandwidth to support the high rez downloads. 24/96 files are 2 to 3 times the size of 16/44.1. Someone has to pay for this, either they have to absorb it from profits or pass it along. Ultimately we will end up paying for it.

jermmd · « **Reply #12 on:** 18 Sep 2009, 07:19 pm »

Quote from: sleepysurf on 18 Sep 2009, 06:53 pm

The additional $2 per d/l translates into a 12.5% price increase. Ridiculous, considering their product is data only, with no overhead for storage, distribution, etc. I'm willing to pay $18 for a high-rez physical disc, but not for a simple FLAC download. Makes absolutely NO business sense whatsoever, and totally changes my perception of Chesky.

I thought $16 was too much. If a very special album that I really wanted in high res came out, I would pay but the price would have to be less than $10 for me to make large purchases or even impulse purchases (which is the majority of my purchases).

Joe

ted_b · « **Reply #13 on:** 18 Sep 2009, 08:04 pm »

Quote from: sleepysurf on 18 Sep 2009, 06:53 pm

The additional $2 per d/l translates into a 12.5% price increase. Ridiculous, considering their product is data only, with no overhead for storage, distribution, etc. I'm willing to pay $18 for a high-rez physical disc, but not for a simple FLAC download. Makes absolutely NO business sense whatsoever, and totally changes my perception of Chesky.

Well, I understand your logic...but keep this in mind:

Linn Records 24/96 downloads cost $24 per album
http://www.linnrecords.com/recording-all-my-sins-maeve-o-boyle.aspx

Naim label 24/96 downloads cost $28 per album
http://www.naimlabel.com/recording-heartplay.aspx

Hirez is still a niche market, and the demand has not brought the prices in line yet. I'm not happy about paying $2 more per disc either, but until we are a large enough group to affect the distribution and pricing we are left to be the dreaded early adopters. Maybe HDTracks will feel the backlash and react with better pricing; we'll see.

srb · « **Reply #14 on:** 18 Sep 2009, 08:10 pm »

Quote from: mgalusha on 18 Sep 2009, 07:13 pm

One possible cause is the need for increased bandwidth to support the high rez downloads. 24/96 files are 2 to 3 times the size of 16/44.1. Someone has to pay for this, either they have to absorb it from profits or pass it along. Ultimately we will end up paying for it.

Bandwith is one of the things that has continually gone down in cost. I think it might be more a case of not understanding marketing and recognizing the sweet spot in pricing and revenues.

If this forum is any indication, I suspect their revenue will decrease somewhat. As technology progresses, I think we will all be reaping improvements on the sound of our relatively inexpensive 16/44.1 redbook, which for most, represents the bulk of our libraries.

Steve

rajacat · « **Reply #15 on:** 18 Sep 2009, 08:26 pm »

I can't justify going high rez when there's a lot of good new vinyl for 18 bucks or less. Also there are sales of redbook or even some high rez at very low prices such as
http://www.oldies.com/collection-view/Fantasy-Warehouse-Clearance-Sale.html. I've really stocked up at this sale. If you keep your eyes open other distributors like the Jazz Loft occasionally have sales that feature extremely low prices on first rate CDs.

-Roy

mgalusha · « **Reply #16 on:** 18 Sep 2009, 08:38 pm »

No question, it's gone down in cost but when you use more it still costs more. I spend entirely too much time every month explaining our data center costs to our CEO.

Quote from: srb on 18 Sep 2009, 08:10 pm

Quote from: mgalusha on 18 Sep 2009, 07:13 pm
One possible cause is the need for increased bandwidth to support the high rez downloads. 24/96 files are 2 to 3 times the size of 16/44.1. Someone has to pay for this, either they have to absorb it from profits or pass it along. Ultimately we will end up paying for it.

Bandwith is one of the things that has continually gone down in cost. I think it might be more a case of not understanding marketing and recognizing the sweet spot in pricing and revenues.

If this forum is any indication, I suspect their revenue will decrease somewhat. As technology progresses, I think we will all be reaping improvements on the sound of our relatively inexpensive 16/44.1 redbook, which for most, represents the bulk of our libraries.

Steve

ted_b · « **Reply #17 on:** 18 Sep 2009, 08:49 pm »

Roy,
I understand that there are plenty of great cd's and vinyl out there for less than HiRez downloads (and some good SACD firesales going on too). It's just that we're in the HiRez Circle and we chat about HiRez material...which is clearly less prevalent and therefore more expensive than redbook, etc. No comparison.

Thanks for the heads up on the Fantasy sale. Several SACD's for $4.98
http://www.oldies.com/search/keywords.cfm?q=SACD&collection=Fantasy-Warehouse-Clearance-Sale&x=0&y=0

jsaliga · « **Reply #18 on:** 18 Sep 2009, 09:41 pm »

If I may I would like to do a little thinking out loud and I'll apologize in advance if I am off topic.

Try as I might, I can't isolate my hirez purchases from my other music buying priorities...of which I have several. First and foremost, my commitment to the Blue Note 45RPM vinyl reissues by Analogue Productions and Music Matters is unshakable. Call me stupid for ponying up $50 per title. You won't get an argument from me since I think the price is completely absurd. But.......Steve Hoffman is doing these remasters and I want them on vinyl. They are starting to trickle out on SACD at $30 a pop, and even that price is ridiculous. But here's the rub: it is content that people want to buy. A number of the Fantasy 45 vinyl reissues are already sold out. So this is not a question of whether audiophiles will buy in at $50 per title. The price is what the market will bear plain and simple. I don't have to like it, but if I want Steve Hoffman remastered Blue Notes on vinyl then that is the price I have to pay.

Now let me jog a little further down the priority list. I am also devoted to buying pretty much every Everest 35mm magnetic film recording that gets reissued by Classic Records on DVD-A. I already own 12 of them. Two more came in the mail today. They are $24.95 each. That is really my breaking point for high definition digital audio unless it is something truely spectacular or of special personal significance to me. Suffice it to say that nothing in the Linn or HDtracks catalog qualifies. This is a personal value judgment. Others might feel differently.

If I go a little bit further down the list I have a few non-hirez priorities. For example, I am a devoted Mosaic Records customer. I own about 40 Mosaic boxed sets (some on vinyl and some on CD) and roughly 14 Mosaic Select 3 CD packages. This will not change until Mosaic either runs out of jazz to reissue or the label goes out of business.

These commitments come first. After that comes any discretionary music buying. This is where downloads such as HDtracks, HDTT (High Definition Tape Transfers for those of you who didn't know), and Linn come into play where my spending is concerned. In these cases I am looking for both quality and value, because most of these buys are not must have content for me. Today I just bought two 24/96 albums: Sex without Bodies and Unauthorized by Dave's True Story. I bought them because the price was going up and I wanted them. But I can also say that at $2.00 per title more it no longer becomes a good value proposition. These are discretionary purchases and my life will not be any less rich and full without them. In contrast, I once missed a Fantasy 45 reissue that was very important to me, and I was upset about it for a while and did everything I could to find a copy regardless of price. No dice.

So, to conclude my exercise in thinking out loud: if HDtracks and Linn believe the content they have accumulated for download thus far is in the "can't live without it" category then I believe they are deluding themselves. But I could be under-estimating the desirability of their respective download libraries. Speaking only for myself, I find neither particularly compelling. Which means they both have to do something extraordinary to get my music dollars.

--Jerome

ted_b · « **Reply #19 on:** 18 Sep 2009, 10:14 pm »

Jerome,
Well said. We all have priorities, and we need to put a value on each. For me, neither HDTracks nor Linn have but 3 or 4 titles each that I'm willing to spend $20+ for. Naim, on the other hand, delivered to me a great Charlie Haden download for $28 that's worth every penny (Heartplay: very very good suff). And suffice it to say if EMI ever gets their head out and produces a download site for the new remastered Fab Four catalog in 24/192 (the tapes now exist, as we all know) then your $50 per title fee is peanuts to what I'd pay.

I'll ping you on the other thread about your top 10 Everest 35MM titles. Ordered Khachaturian (on your rec) a couple days ago. My first!

P.S Met Steve (Hoffman) at RMAF last year after being a forum member for sooo long; and he committed to signing a copy or two of the SACD's for me as they trickle out. I need to get a couple and send to him.