What is "high end" in audio?

Laundrew · « **on:** 17 Sep 2009, 10:17 pm »

I have listened to many people talk about "high end" audio in the past year or so. I am somewhat at a loss to know what "high end" truly is - where does this mythical beast begin? Is one individual's idea of "high end" audio equipment in-line with the next person's views? Or, heaven forbid, can the term of "high end" be solely based on vanity?

Be well...

Pez · « **Reply #1 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 10:27 pm »

lol Hi-end is nothing but an arbitrary term. To some people "hi-end" is the Bose lifestyle xx. To others "hi-end" is multiple million dollar systems. Not everyone considers the term "hi-end" favorably, myself included. Ususally this term is used as a badge of greatness justifying exorbitant pricing, but to me it is used to convince someone that a given component is worthy of the price they are trying to gouge you for. Most of what you see are $20K speakers with the equivalent of <$1000 worth of parts, so does engineering and all other overhead justify the $19,000 difference?

Mad Mr H · « **Reply #2 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 10:42 pm »

For me...High end starts when you walk into a room, the audio grabs your attention because you look for the live band or walk in and hear a WOW factor...........

It does not have to be uber high prices, but there is a minimum cost for quality........

Andy.

wrathchild · « **Reply #3 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 10:59 pm »

Exactly, as with most things in this hobby everything is personal and relative. If you bought it at a dedicated audio store, or not at Best Buy, is it high end? If you bought the most inflated priced stuff from best buy, would that be high end? My system could be someone else's dream as easily as it could be their starter or back up system. I don't like to say 'high end', in regards to my own stuff,I don't know if it is or not, doesn't really matter to me what you call it, i just say 'it's good, I like it'. It might be difficult to not equate high end with overpriced. I think you get what you pay for, but only up to a magic point. After the magic point, artistic takes over from sonic.

vinylphilemag · « **Reply #4 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 11:01 pm »

I think high end, as a broad term, applies to gear that is designed with sound quality (perhaps at a given price point) as the main criteria. High end gear does usually cost more than "mainstream" stuff, but some bargains can be had with entry level high end components. Contrariwsie, most mainstream stuff is designed to a price point, with features and other stuff high on the priority list. Sound quality, in a lot of cases, isn't given a moment's thought (and it shows).

Note that expensive does not mean high end. For example, Bose speakers are quite expensive, but they're also nowhere near high end.

I also think that trying to equate cost of parts to the list price of kit is also a bit misguided. R & D costs can be quite high, and also high end stuff tends to be made by smaller compaines (less economies of scale). Audio gear isn't a commodity, it therefore is sold based on the price the market will bear.

JLM · « **Reply #5 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 11:15 pm »

I also try to avoid the term/concept of "hi end audio", but like Pez said, it's a personal perspective.

I associate it with eye candy/glamorous aspects of equipment that add little/nothing to what is heard but lots to the price. These aspects can range from thick metal front panels, frivolous specifications, extra size/weight, or useless complexity.

I enjoy achieving the same results with cheaper, smaller, simpler means. Even more, I appreciate obtaining my goals with "off the beaten path" methods, which is rarely credited as "high end". In my case that means a low cost but very good performing dedicated audio man cave, single driver speakers that I commissioned, Channel Island Audio chip based monoblocks, an Oppo player used as a transport, modded Behringer DEQ2496 for EQ, baffle step, and zobel, and attenuators. (All of which looks like a hair shirt, and probably way too cheap/simple for most audiophiles.)

But to each their own.

Stu Pitt · « **Reply #6 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 11:16 pm »

Compared to my friends' systems, mine is definitely high end (see my signature for system).

Compared to people here? A bedroom system to most. Not that that's a bad thing at all.

Its all relative to the discussion at hand.

Cacophonix · « **Reply #7 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 11:25 pm »

To me, its a state of mind. It is how seriously one takes audio and music. Every system owned by a serious lover of music qualifies as high end.

James Tanner · « **Reply #8 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 11:33 pm »

I think hi-end (anything) audio, cars, fishing rods, boats, cameras, dogs etc. presumes a certain level of excellence. That excellence is judged by how close it comes to the 'ideal' as agreed upon by the majority of participants?

james

K Shep · « **Reply #9 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 11:39 pm »

In my view High-End Audio is the pursuit to re-create the musicians message as true as possible.

I don't know the seperation between hi-fi and mid-fi or high-end, but I think most of the contributors on this site believe the system that they have in their home is high-end.

I also know how passionate the founders of our hobby are and that many of them do it for the love of the music and the science behind the products that the produce. Some of which may not fall into the extreme high-end, but their dedication is beyond high-end.

Kirk

kingdeezie · « **Reply #10 on:** 18 Sep 2009, 01:19 am »

I think people confuse "Hi-Fi" with "High-end."

The term "High-End" usually brings with it a monetary connotation. So, a lot of people here might not have something that is "High-End," but something that certainly is "Hi-Fi."

I think the most important thing we as audiophiles should look for is something "Hi-Fi," meaning does it replicate the music true to the recording; for better or worse.

robb · « **Reply #11 on:** 18 Sep 2009, 03:11 am »

I've always thought a high end system is how well the owner thinks it reproduces the sounds of live instruments in the acoustic environment. To me, if I feel my system can replicate correctly, say, the sound of the real clarinet, then my system is definitely "high end".

rob

Mad Mr H · « **Reply #12 on:** 18 Sep 2009, 07:56 am »

Wiki offers the following.....

Hi Fi

High fidelity or hi-fi reproduction is a term used by home stereo listeners and home audio enthusiasts (audiophiles) to refer to high-quality reproduction of sound or images that are very faithful to the original performance.[1] Ideally, high-fidelity equipment has minimal amounts of noise and distortion and an accurate frequency response as set out in 1973 by the German Deutsches Institut f?r Normung (DIN) standard DIN 45500. This standard was well intentioned, but only mildly successful in defining 'high-fidelity'. DIN 45 500 approval provided audio equipment buyers with reassurance that their equipment was capable of good quality reproduction. In theory, only stereo equipment that met the standard could bear the words 'hi-fi', but in practice, the term was widely misapplied to audio products that did not remotely approach the DIN basis specifications. By the 1990s, the term hi-fi for expensive high-quality home-audio electronics was largely replaced with high-end audio.

Complete link here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hi-Fi

High End

High-end audio is a term used to describe a class of consumer home audio equipment marketed to audio enthusiasts on the basis of high price or quality, and esoteric or novel sound reproduction technologies. High-end audio can refer simply to the price, to the build quality of the components, or to the subjective or objective quality of sound reproduction.[1][2]

Compete link here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-end_audio

KeithA · « **Reply #13 on:** 18 Sep 2009, 01:55 pm »

3B SST - High Fidelity

28B SST - High End

1ZIP · « **Reply #14 on:** 18 Sep 2009, 03:06 pm »

If I set the "Way Back" machine to the 50's/60's (and yes some of us actually remember those years although maybe not all that well) good quality mono reproduction was HIFI for a while, then "Stereo" burst on the scene and for a while the distinction was HIFI vs Stereo eq.. I guess because some distinction, mostly ego driven I suspect, had to be made between those who merely listened to music and those who were really "in" to music and sought the holy grail of reproduction(tongue in cheek there). Then when stereo became common place HIFI became NOFI and so another distinction needed to be made(for the same reason). Hence now the "High End" term and when everybody has "High End" , and that point is swiftly approaching, another distinction will need to be made. Probably "High End" vs " Great Caesars ghost that's esoteric and expensive"!! I think the whole issue is more a ploy by the industry to justify high prices by appealing to elitists.

Whatever!!

avahifi · « **Reply #15 on:** 18 Sep 2009, 03:33 pm »

To me "high end" kind of means that you can turn the system on and hear the musicians, not just all the notes. It need not be expensive and depends completely upon what pleases you.

Warning! Once you get the bug, the search for your own system goals can become addictive, time consuming, expensive, frustrating, and lots of fun.

Best regards,

Frank Van Alstine

macrojack · « **Reply #16 on:** 18 Sep 2009, 03:44 pm »

The term "hi-end" came into use in order to differentiate it from the mass market stuff most of us started with back in the 1970s. For me and many others, Hafler was the entry point to high end audio. I don't know what the term means anymore.

KeithA · « **Reply #17 on:** 18 Sep 2009, 03:49 pm »

You'll never get a consesus view on this topic

But, for me, high end has a connotation of price (as well as performance). I mean, high-end cars and houses are not cheap...they are expensive. As well, it will vary by financial status of the individual.

So, when you can buy a Honda Fit for the same price a pair of mono blocs....that's high end to most people...it certainly is to me.

Keith

vegasdave · « **Reply #18 on:** 18 Sep 2009, 06:38 pm »

Quote from: Mad Mr H on 17 Sep 2009, 10:42 pm

For me...High end starts when you walk into a room, the audio grabs your attention because you look for the live band or walk in and hear a WOW factor...........

It does not have to be uber high prices, but there is a minimum cost for quality........

Andy.

I concur.

vegasdave · « **Reply #19 on:** 18 Sep 2009, 06:39 pm »

Quote from: robb on 18 Sep 2009, 03:11 am

I've always thought a high end system is how well the owner thinks it reproduces the sounds of live instruments in the acoustic environment. To me, if I feel my system can replicate correctly, say, the sound of the real clarinet, then my system is definitely "high end".

rob

That's true as well.