Is a Piccolo a good "starter" for a newbie?

JimK · « **on:** 15 Sep 2009, 06:23 pm »

First post under this moniker (I was "subcoolman" in another life), and some of you may recognize me from AA.

Here's the deal:

I bought a DV-20XL from a friend ("Muzikmike") awhile back, but my Wright AG Phono doesn't have enough gain. After sharing many emails and speaking with Jim/"tubesforever", I've come to the conclusion that I need (want?) a Piccolo. However, I've never soldered anything more than 12 gauge stranded wires before, and I'm afraid I may be in over my head.

I guess what I'm asking is, can an "average" guy like me build a Piccolo? I don't have the proper tools yet (small soldering iron, etc), and I don't know much about electronics, but I am very comfortable with electricity (former HVAC service technician), I own a good RMS Fluke (forgot the model- I'm at work), and I'm not afraid to learn.

So, can any of you relate? Anyone "been there, done that", and can offer me some good advice?

Thanks!

Jim

analog97 · « **Reply #1 on:** 15 Sep 2009, 09:06 pm »

Hi. I was similar in experience when I started and built the Cornet2, Clarinet, Piccolo, Bugle, Power Supply, Ripper and UFO from Hagtech. I know it can be done. Just make sure you have a low watt iron...say 25-30 watts and practice making a few solder joints on an old board. Once you master that, the kit goes together easily. You just have to follow instructions and do not get confused with resistor values. The most difficult thing for me was drilling the case and yes, I did screw this up. But, I did not have a step-drill at that time. There are lots of tips on this board and help is available. I think you're ready and should take the plunge.

TRADERXFAN · « **Reply #2 on:** 15 Sep 2009, 10:17 pm »

So these kits don't need test equipment? I always thought they would... I should have investigated more. I have had a passing interest for quite a while.

-Tony

analog97 · « **Reply #3 on:** 15 Sep 2009, 11:32 pm »

Quote

So these kits don't need test equipment?

All I used for testing was a DMM. I think it depends on your comfort and experience level. Building a low voltage device like the Bugle or Piccolo is very easy and safe. There are high voltages in the tube builds like the Cornet2 and Clarinet. Still, these are easy and safe as well assuming you follow the clear-cut instructions.

jameshuls · « **Reply #4 on:** 15 Sep 2009, 11:51 pm »

The iRIAA filter followed by the piccolo were the fist things I ever soldered in my life. I found it very easy, and my only testing tools are a DMM and a capacitance meter. Go for it - just be warned, DIY is addicitve!

jcg0322 · « **Reply #5 on:** 16 Sep 2009, 12:46 am »

Or, you can always purchase an inexpensive and fun to build Elenco diy multimeter or other kit. These will give you some soldering experience. There are other beginner type kits on the internet as well.

Make sure you use Kester 40/60 solder for best results. The new 99% lead free solder is a pain in the butt and very difficult to work with.

I teach aerospace electronics and soldering is part of the training. Some people catch on fast and others have a very hard time.

Good luck.

Jack

tubesforever · « **Reply #6 on:** 16 Sep 2009, 07:10 am »

ScottRT was a great help to me as I waded through this DIY Hagerman kit world.

His first piece of advice was to buy a soldering station. I bought a Velleman with digital temp readout and ceramic heater.

It heats up in under 2 minutes and it solders like monster.

The Piccolo is a small hole board, so buy small solder. I really like the wonder solder sold at Percy Audio and other vendors. Michael has this in the small size.

The best thing about jumping into this pool is the collective support group here that wants you to succeed with your project. Its like a group of super specialists. We learn and share with one another.

The Piccolo is a serious head amplifier. Use some quiet parts and you will have a piece that sounds far better than anything near its retail price.

Take the plunge here Jim, the water is fine!

Of course I am biased, I have built three of these now and each one sounded pretty fine.

pretzel_logic · « **Reply #7 on:** 16 Sep 2009, 12:15 pm »

As others have stated a decent soldering station is a good idea. I also have a Velleman variable temp, along with a few assorted tips, and a good soldering iron goes a long way towards easing frustration especially if soldering is somewhat new to you. Use the same principle as sweat soldering, heat the parts first then apply the solder, sometimes you have to get it flowing with a touch of the solder to the iron tip and I believe that basically releases the flux and allows for even flow.

I'm hoping to get started on my Piccolo soon as well, have all the parts but may order a few boutique parts, need to do a little more research.

But if you can sweat solder you should have no problem, the parts are just smaller and more intricate than copper piping and before buying a couple old Dynaco amps several years ago that needed upgrading all I had was sweat soldering experience as well. Since then I've done several repairs and built a couple Cornets, just finished my Cornet 2 a couple weeks ago.

Good Luck...

Brian

JimK · « **Reply #8 on:** 16 Sep 2009, 12:44 pm »

Thanks everyone! This is a great place....

I just did a quick "drive by" on Velleman's site, and I must say I'm a little confused by all of the offerings. Anyone care to share model # recommendations? Is the "soldering station" (VTSS20U) something I need, or just a good idea? After all, I'm not sure how far I'll get into this DIY stuff, I'd like to start out "simple", or basic, and I don't have a lot of money right now....

Secondly, I'm used to soldering with 95/5 (lead free), or 50/50, but those aren't "electronic" solders. What sort of solder should I look for? Jim mentions "wonder solder" above, and my brain is going, "Huh?" And what about flux? And are there other accessories that should be obtained? (I seem to recall reading somewhere that heat sinks are a good idea when soldering electronics...). Once I get these figured out I'll most likely get a kit ordered up.

Thanks all!

Jim

pretzel_logic · « **Reply #9 on:** 16 Sep 2009, 02:17 pm »

Hey Jim,

Actually I have a Weller, was thinking Velleman for some reason. I have the WESD51 I believe and off hand don't remember how much I paid but it was probably around a hundred bucks, definitely a nice unit if you will be doing lots of soldering but maybe more than you need now. I had a Radio Shack variable but it was tough getting tips for the thing and I definitely like having different sized tips. I also had trouble with the RS unit heating up properly and they just had lousy tips for the thing, at least the ones I'd used.

Jim mentioned the Wonder Solder and I have used it before. This time around I went with the 40/60 Kester electronics solder that I had on hand and it's readily available at the local home centers and worked fine. It's self fluxing I believe and you don't need to use any other flux. You will want to get some desoldering braid which is just a copper braid strip used to remove excess solder in case you have to remove something. It should be available through whatever distributor you get your parts at, and Radio Shack has it as well.

I'll let others chime in on what wattage is best but mine solder station has a variable heat control, was using it around 600 degrees, makes for quick work.

There is also a site on the web about soldering, can't think of it off hand, but it has little videos and is a very good tool for the beginner. If I can find it I'll post the link.

Brian

JimK · « **Reply #10 on:** 16 Sep 2009, 05:21 pm »

Brian,

Thanks for the reply!

"Weller". Now there's a name I recognize. I've owned the same Weller soldering iron, or soldering "gun", for years, and it's never let me down. Replaced the little "headlights" in it twice, but other than that....

Ok, no RS soldering irons. And that's "ok" as my local RS is pretty small, they stock very little, they always want my phone number (even for $.39 sales), and 90% of what I need from them they have to order, so I've taken all my RS business online.

I just found your Weller set-up online- nice! I wonder if I can find a "deal" on one somewhere...

And I'll see if I can't find that soldering site. I imagine sweating pipe with soft (or hard) solder is a heckuva lot different, and requires a whole new skill set. I think, once I buy a soldering iron, I'll "play around" with an old PC board or three before trying my hand at the Piccolo.

Regards,

Jim

JimK · « **Reply #11 on:** 16 Sep 2009, 08:07 pm »

New question for y'all (and then I promise I'll shut-up for the time being):

Home Depot sells a Weller 25 watt and 40 watt soldering "kit". Will one of these be a good choice for a Piccolo (and a beginner such as myself), and if so, which one should I get?

Thanks all, and sorry for the rather elementary Q's.

Jim

jameshuls · « **Reply #12 on:** 16 Sep 2009, 08:11 pm »

Jim, I agree with the suggestion of a soldering station, particularly when using the lead-free silver-rich solders. I picked up this little xytronic station:

http://www.howardelectronics.com/xytronic/169D.html

and it has worked flawlessly for me for 2 years. I believe I owe much of my novice soldering success to this unit as the temperature control allows for very precise soldering tolerances, particularly important with lead-free audio specific solders, such as the Mundorf Supreme silver/gold solder I am using. I feel it is $100 very well spent, particularly if you foresee more DIY projects in the future.

JimK · « **Reply #13 on:** 16 Sep 2009, 09:58 pm »

Well, money is tight, but $100 for a soldering iron (excuse me, "station"- I can't get used to that term) that holds temp to +/- 6 degrees F, even though I don't know what temps I will need, sounds like a no-brainer to me.

As for any future projects, I guess that all depends on how this one goes....

Thanks!

Jim

jameshuls · « **Reply #14 on:** 16 Sep 2009, 10:22 pm »

I have had very good results with temperatures of 690-705, depending on the solder and the application.

hagtech · « **Reply #15 on:** 18 Sep 2009, 01:15 am »

I usually run my temp between 650 and 700. But then again, I use old-fashioned lead solder from Kester. I bought a caseload a few years ago. With silver, you have to go hotter.

jh

MusicMtnMonkey · « **Reply #16 on:** 29 Sep 2009, 10:39 pm »

http://www.mpja.com/productsdirect.asp?dept=480&main=79&item1=15860+TL&item2=15845+TL&item3=15140+TL&item4=15141+TL

So far the MPJA cheapy soldering iron has been a good in between for me. It's similar in cost to the 40 watt Weller but much more functional. Cheaper than the $100 plus solder stations by Weller or Hakko?. The cheap 40 watt, fixed temperature Weller I purchased at Home Depot was really a pain. Having a cheap solder station where I can adjust the temperature to the same place to get consistent results really made a huge difference for me. I really have no idea if it reports accurate temperature, but it is easy to find a setting that works and duplicate it. Without a temperature control I found the cheap Weller's much more difficult to solder with. I'm not sure, but I think the MPJA does have a ceramic heating element and does heat up fairly quick...

hagtech · « **Reply #17 on:** 30 Sep 2009, 11:31 pm »

I don't know why, but every time I buy electronics from Home Depot, it turns out to be crap I can't use. Two recent examples: a cable TV amplifier (caused more harm than not using at all) and a 300W AC inverter for my car (which could not power my 50W power supply!). Prices were good, though.

jh

jcg0322 · « **Reply #18 on:** 1 Oct 2009, 07:48 pm »

Jim,

The only quality cable TV amplifiers are available from the cable company. All the others are junk and it doesn't matter which store you buy them from.

I have two inexpensive AC inverters and niether one of them puts out 115-120 VAC. More like 100-105 VAC and that's with no load. Check the AC output of yours.

Jack

JimK · « **Reply #19 on:** 6 Oct 2009, 08:11 pm »

"Good" AC inverters can be purchased at RV centers (I used to work P/T for NAPA, and I can say w/o a doubt that the ones they sell are crap). My folks have had the misfortune of having theirs stolen not once....not twice....but three times, and each time they end up getting a bigger and better unit. I don't know the amp capacity, but my mother can run her hair drier and a coffee brewer at the same time with the most recent one....