Pacific Valve CyberServer

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cloudbaseracer

Pacific Valve CyberServer
« on: 15 Sep 2009, 04:17 am »
Thanks to the prying eyes of Gmail- had Duet in the body of a message- an add popped up for this:

http://www.pacificvalve.us/PVMedia.html?gclid=CPv5h6jM8pwCFSduswodwR31iw

http://www.pacificvalve.us/CyberServers.html

Solid state drive?

What do you guys think?

James

firedog

Re: Pacific Valve CyberServer
« Reply #1 on: 15 Sep 2009, 08:45 am »
Hi-

I think it is probably a good unit as far as sound, but overpriced and under-featured. SSD drives are still very expensive. The "interface" is clunky and inconvenient. One of the most important features when putting your CD's on a server is having a convenient method for access. Otherwise you can't enjoy your

The site makes a few unfounded claims:

1. That USB audio can't sound good and be audiophile quality.

2. That normal HD's also don't sound good

3. Wireless can't sound really good.

4. That PC audio can't sound good.

It's been well established that HD's sound better than CD's if the rip is done properly and a high quality transfer to the audio system is available.

In addition, USB can be of extremely high quality if it is set up properly. Pacific Valve refers to an "Absolute Sound"  article, panning USB as not up to par; but if you actually go to the site, look at the comments after the article. They basically rip the methodology in the article to shreds, and show that the guy who wrote the article didn't understand even the basics about setting up a PC or USB for audio.

Same for wi-fi transfer. It can sound fantastic if you set it up properly.


At this stage, I think you can get a lot more bang for your buck by buying a dedicated music server PC.  You can get a new PC with a TB or more of HD storage starting at about $300. You can also make it silent( fanless), but that will cost about another $200. Or use just about any old PC. If it is only used for music serving, it doesn't need to be powerful.

Adding good quality wi-fi or USB transfer will also cost several hundred dollars, but the total package can be done for  less money than the Pacific Valve units, and with more storage.

In a year or two when SSD prices come down, you  can replace the HD's with SSD's if you want.

The idea that PC's can't do high quality sound because "they're computational units" is inane. If you're decoding FLAC (which the CyberServer does), you're also running a "computational unit". One of the things you do when setting up a music server PC is make sure that all it does is transfer bits, and  doesn't alter the files. You can get close to "bit perfect" transfer to your audio system with a bit of effort.

With a PC based unit you also have many more options for user interface and any software you might want to use on the PC, as well as updates and upgrades of the hardware in the future.

I've no doubt the CyberSever sounds good, but I think it is overpriced.  I also find their sales pitch offensive - they basically claim that their unit is the only possible audiophile solution for a digital music server. Simply not true, and it gives me doubts about their credibility.

ecramer

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Re: Pacific Valve CyberServer
« Reply #2 on: 15 Sep 2009, 09:01 am »
Hi-


It's been well established that HD's sound better than CD's if the rip is done properly and a high quality transfer to the audio system is available.


BullCrap

JLM

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Re: Pacific Valve CyberServer
« Reply #3 on: 15 Sep 2009, 09:39 am »
See this other discless circle audio thread:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=70678.0

I'd be interested in all this when the user interface gets friendlier, the hardware gets fully bundled, and the set up is truly plug and play (like a refrigerator).

Once the technology matures and prices come down within line of actual manufacturing cost with mass production I'd love to jump in.

firedog

Re: Pacific Valve CyberServer
« Reply #4 on: 20 Sep 2009, 04:02 pm »
Hi-


It's been well established that HD's sound better than CD's if the rip is done properly and a high quality transfer to the audio system is available.



BullCrap


I love people like you who throw out answers like "bullcrap" without any reasoning to back it up. Spend 5 minutes on a web search on the topic and you'll find multiple reliable sources who disagree with your mature statement.

Here's one: which explicitly backs me up and also explains how HD playback generally has lower jitter than CD playback.
http://www.avguide.com/blog/do-hard-disk-drives-sound-better-cd-0

I'd take Avguide/The Absolute Sound and Robert Hartley over your knee-jerk ignorance any day.
 

ecramer

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Re: Pacific Valve CyberServer
« Reply #5 on: 20 Sep 2009, 06:49 pm »
Hi-


It's been well established that HD's sound better than CD's if the rip is done properly and a high quality transfer to the audio system is available.



BullCrap


I love people like you who throw out answers like "bullcrap" without any reasoning to back it up. Spend 5 minutes on a web search on the topic and you'll find multiple reliable sources who disagree with your mature statement.

Here's one: which explicitly backs me up and also explains how HD playback generally has lower jitter than CD playback.
http://www.avguide.com/blog/do-hard-disk-drives-sound-better-cd-0

I'd take Avguide/The Absolute Sound and Robert Hartley over your knee-jerk ignorance any day.

Ok so it is all right for you to make this statement with out back up

"It's been well established that HD's sound better than CD's if the rip is done properly and a high quality transfer to the audio system is available."

but it not all right for me to make this statement without back up

"BullCrap"

Which if  i had realized that i was in the diskless circle I would have kept my big trap shut. I will freely admit i don't like computer as source system i find them lifeless and sterile  in general. Ive heard 2 or three computer /digital servers that i like and many cd players that i do. that's just me. and i will also admit that i am a 2 chanel die hard very much devoted tol analog. I'm sorry i upset you with that statement. next time i will just keep quite as i know its a no win situation To each his own.

ED

EchiDna

Re: Pacific Valve CyberServer
« Reply #6 on: 21 Sep 2009, 03:50 am »
take it easy lads, this aint the place for "format wars" - glad to see you have agreed to disagree :)

IMHO, there is no right answer, just opinions and mine has the same value as everyone else's!

Vic Trola

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Re: Pacific Valve CyberServer
« Reply #7 on: 22 Sep 2009, 02:54 pm »
What an interesting discussion and debate. I would like to take the time to offer diatribe.

++That USB audio can't sound good and be audiophile quality.
Its true, its really true.  Its true because of the USB drivers are not made to carry music.  Did you ever wonder why native USB cannot carry 192K music? In addition to the physical limitations, the software is designed for block I/O file transfer.  Music does not sound good under the block I/O that is inherent in Windows / Mac designs.  That is why good USB DACS like the Musiland Monitor, Wavelength, Ayre et.al - replace the native Windows drivers with there own ASIO drivers.  If you do this, then USB is finally capable of some decent sound.

++That normal HD's also don't sound good

Notice that HD have different speeds.  All HDs sound different due to the rotating speeds and access times.  A solid state drive is inherently faster - sometimes 5X as fast as the HD.  So a bad HD VS. a good CD transport?  My bet is on the CD.  A CD vs. a solid state drive?  My bet is on the SSD.  The problem is exacerbated as sampling rates rise as the data streamed for a 192K drum beat is 4X the data streamed for a 44.1 drum beat. So as sampling rates go up, speed is critical.  If the stream arrives late - then jitter ensues.

++ Wireless can't sound really good.

Wireless jitter is well studied and documented in the telephony world.  Again, its a speed thing - as sample rates rise, wireless jitter will increase

++That PC audio can't sound good.
PCs are computational devices and not media streaming devices.  The CPU and the bus architecture do not prioritize I/O, they prioritize computation.  Ever wonder why you are just sitting in front of the PC, doing nothing while the hard drive blinks?  Its because the block I/O that the Windows / MAC OS use is not a priority for the CPU.  Linux based music servers that use streaming I/O via the socket architecture is going to be faster and less jitter prone.

++ The "interface" is clunky and inconvenient.

I have no idea what you are talking about.  You can browse music by genre, decade, artist, song title, folder etc.  I would hardly call that clunky.



« Last Edit: 23 Sep 2009, 06:50 pm by Vic Trola »