Upgrading X-statiks to N3

iskandam · « **on:** 14 Sep 2009, 07:35 pm »

My rig consists of X-Statiks, X-Voce, and X-LS Encore. I am happy with their sound for 2-channel and multichannel music, but these days I've been using them more for HT and feel that they're lacking detail and punchiness for that purpose. I've heard all-Rocket HTs and love the smoothness of the sound, detail, pinpoint imaging, and bass slam for HT. I seriously considered upgrading to RSC200, RS 850 and RS 450 until I came across this site and saw the high quality kits being offered.

The N3 specifically caught my attention with the Neo-3 pdr tweeter and transmission line design. Going with a pair of N3 towers, N3 center, and either N1X or N2X rears would be a more costly option due to my lack of woodworking/veneering skills. But if the gain in sound quality is significant enough then I will pursue this as my first DIY project.

So now my question is how would the N3 stack up against the Rocket combo in an HT environment? If I do go with the Rockets I would eventually upgrade their crossovers with Ninja Master components, so ultimately this would be a question of N3 with Sonicap and Mills, No-Rez, and JPS Labs wire upgrade vs Ninja Master Rockets.

I love the smoothness of the Vifa tweeter. Is the Neo-3 pdr up to the task? I've never heard a transmission line design before or what it does to the sound. Would it be able to deliver the same kind of slam-you-in-the-chest mid-bass kick as the RS 850?

corndog71 · « **Reply #1 on:** 14 Sep 2009, 08:46 pm »

What kind of amp are you using?

Another option is to upgrade the speakers that you already have. I replaced the cheap filler material of my x-sls and x-voce with poly-fill as well as relining them with No Rez. This alone added more focus to these already great speakers.

Next I'll be upgrading the crossovers via www.skiingninja.com

iskandam · « **Reply #2 on:** 14 Sep 2009, 09:16 pm »

I used to run them with Emotiva MPS-1 then XPA-5. But with the efficiency of these speakers I didn't really gain anything with these beasts so I sold them and got a Pioneer Elite SC-05 receiver instead. I was really surprised by how good the AVR sounds compared to those separate amps.

I also considered the Ninja Master upgrade to the X-Statiks and X-Voce, but the total cost combined with what I paid for these speakers would exceed the N3 DIY option. This is what caused the upgraditis in the first place

corndog71 · « **Reply #3 on:** 14 Sep 2009, 09:40 pm »

Are you using a sub? I highly recommend the single servo sub kit Danny offers. It will fill in the bottom better than anything out there for the money and will give you plenty of slam. aa

No offense but I have a hard time believing you're hearing those speakers at their best with a Pioneer receiver.

Then again the Rockets do have a rep for better in your face slam. Maybe that would be the better avenue for you.

iskandam · « **Reply #4 on:** 14 Sep 2009, 11:28 pm »

Yes I have a big Epik sub with Antimode 8033 handling EQ duties. At this point I am totally satisfied with the sub and feel no need to upgrade it anytime soon.

At first I was hesitant about going back to an AVR from separates but the new SC- series Pioneer Elite AVRs can easily go toe to toe with mid-level separates and easily bested Denon and Onkyo's flagships. If I hadn't heard it myself I wouldn't have believed it.

trekker · « **Reply #5 on:** 15 Sep 2009, 12:04 am »

I went from the RS 1000's, RSC 200 to x-statik's & x-voce. I do have to say that for HT the RS 1000's have more of a kick than my x-statik's. But the main reason I went to the x-series is for the openness of the open baffle and wanted to try something new.

I wish I could have both systems running, but I have the RS 1000's and RSC 200 packed away

HT cOz · « **Reply #6 on:** 15 Sep 2009, 02:35 am »

That Pioneer is really cool with the ICE amps. They like an 8ohm load and the Neo3 is probably a synergistic match.

iskandam · « **Reply #7 on:** 15 Sep 2009, 04:00 am »

Quote from: HT cOz on 15 Sep 2009, 02:35 am

That Pioneer is really cool with the ICE amps. They like an 8ohm load and the Neo3 is probably a synergistic match.

The combination of ICE amps, Wolfson DACs, and accurate room correction (MCACC) result in truly audiophile quality sound. The ICE amp is also powerful, highly efficient, and runs cool. It really works well with efficient speakers like X-Statiks and X-Voce.

Like trekker I also want to try something new, except that we're going the opposite direction

iskandam · « **Reply #8 on:** 15 Sep 2009, 06:58 pm »

I guess there's really no way to find out but to actually hear them. Are there any owners of N3 or N2X in the Los Angeles area who would be kind enough to demo their system?

dvenardos · « **Reply #9 on:** 15 Sep 2009, 08:57 pm »

Danny has a demo list for the N2, and I believe he has an N1 that he can also send out.

Quote from: iskandam on 15 Sep 2009, 06:58 pm

I guess there's really no way to find out but to actually hear them. Are there any owners of N3 or N2X in the Los Angeles area who would be kind enough to demo their system?

emac · « **Reply #10 on:** 15 Sep 2009, 10:38 pm »

As someone who switched from Ninja Master X-Omni's w/ Sonicap Platinums to GR Research O-3's (the omnidirectional equivalent of the N3's), I can say that even though I'd pimped out the X-Omni's to the max, they weren't a comparison to the O-3's. Whole different league when it came to detail and imaging. And when I've heard the Neo2x's before, they were also terrific. The Neo-3 pdr drivers are very, very good, and better than what AV123 uses.

In terms of slam, I'd imagine that the N3's can keep up with the Ninja'ed Rockets reasonably well and are similarly better for detail and imaging. But I don't want to speak for Danny since he'd have a better idea about that than I would.

However, while getting a whole HT of GR Research products would be terrific, it would be a lot of work to DIY. The Ninja kits are relatively easy to install in most cases and are a very good, cost effective upgrade.

Either way, can't really go wrong.

iskandam · « **Reply #11 on:** 16 Sep 2009, 12:07 am »

Quote from: emac on 15 Sep 2009, 10:38 pm

As someone who switched from Ninja Master X-Omni's w/ Sonicap Platinums to GR Research O-3's (the omnidirectional equivalent of the N3's), I can say that even though I'd pimped out the X-Omni's to the max, they weren't a comparison to the O-3's. Whole different league when it came to detail and imaging. And when I've heard the Neo2x's before, they were also terrific. The Neo-3 pdr drivers are very, very good, and better than what AV123 uses.

In terms of slam, I'd imagine that the N3's can keep up with the Ninja'ed Rockets reasonably well and are similarly better for detail and imaging. But I don't want to speak for Danny since he'd have a better idea about that than I would.

However, while getting a whole HT of GR Research products would be terrific, it would be a lot of work to DIY. The Ninja kits are relatively easy to install in most cases and are a very good, cost effective upgrade.

Either way, can't really go wrong.

Thanks for the detailed impression. I read your thoughts on the X-Omni vs O-3 comparisons in other forums, which made me give me a long and hard look at these Neo-3 pdr kits. I've always loved the sound of ribbon tweeters and was very close to pulling the trigger on a full Magnepan HT before deciding on X-Statiks. The maggies just don't have enough dynamics for an exciting HT experience.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #12 on:** 16 Sep 2009, 01:14 am »

Emac pretty well nailed it. Having designed or designed the crossovers for all of those I can soundly confirm his impressions.

emac · « **Reply #13 on:** 16 Sep 2009, 02:45 am »

Danny, while we're discussing tweeters, I wanted to ask a question that I don't recall seeing anywhere (though if it's been discussed previously, I apologize). What are your opinions on the Neo-3 pdr tweeter vs. the Focal tweeter found in the Paradox line? Do you have a preference?

Thanks.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #14 on:** 16 Sep 2009, 03:04 am »

Neo's!

iskandam · « **Reply #15 on:** 16 Sep 2009, 07:06 am »

I'm gonna sign up for the N2X demo list and see how well they play with the ICE amps.

I really like the glossy piano black finish of the Polk LSis so if I do end up building the kit that's the finish that I'd like to see on them. It may be a bit premature to ask at this point, but how difficult is it to accomplish that kind of finish compared to satin black or veneer?

stevenkelby · « **Reply #16 on:** 16 Sep 2009, 10:48 am »

Piano black veneer is the way to go. Can't recall where I saw it though.

dvenardos · « **Reply #17 on:** 16 Sep 2009, 04:24 pm »

From my research piano finishes are extremely difficult for the DIYer. You might want to check with your local auto paint shop and see if they would do the finish.

Quote from: iskandam on 16 Sep 2009, 07:06 am

I'm gonna sign up for the N2X demo list and see how well they play with the ICE amps.

I really like the glossy piano black finish of the Polk LSis so if I do end up building the kit that's the finish that I'd like to see on them. It may be a bit premature to ask at this point, but how difficult is it to accomplish that kind of finish compared to satin black or veneer?

iskandam · « **Reply #18 on:** 16 Sep 2009, 05:40 pm »

Thanks for answering all my questions, Danny. Looking forward to hearing those N2X soon!

Quote from: dvenardos on 16 Sep 2009, 04:24 pm

From my research piano finishes are extremely difficult for the DIYer. You might want to check with your local auto paint shop and see if they would do the finish.

That's a good idea, I'm sure they'll do a much better job than me

iskandam · « **Reply #19 on:** 17 Sep 2009, 06:39 pm »

I read another thread where somebody used formica to finish the speakers. Is this easier to do than the veneering/painting method?